Unraveling the Impact of Domestic Violence on Parent-Child Attachment

Ever wonder how domestic violence affects the emotional bonds crucial to our relationships? Join us as we broach this vital topic with Ruth Guerreiro, Chief Clinical Officer of Genesis Women's Shelter and Support. Together, we'll uncover the influence of domestic violence on the four types of attachment styles - secure, avoidant, ambivalent, and disorganized. Hear as Ruth unravels the devious tactics often employed by abusive partners to disrupt a mother's ability to form a secure attachment with her child.

Our conversation takes us into the world of abusive fathers and the harmful tactics they employ that have a potential to leave lasting scars on their children. We shed light on the damaging messages of disrespect, inequality, and aggression these fathers subtly communicate to their children, while also undermining the mother's ability to parent effectively. This exploration promises to broaden your understanding of the psychological warfare often deployed by men in domestic violence situations.

To culminate, we emphasize the power of therapy in mending the mother-child bond post-trauma and reveal the integral role that bilingual services at Genesis Women's Shelter play in supporting families impacted by domestic violence. Learn how therapies like EMDR and play therapy, bolstered by effective praise, physical proximity, and positive physical touch, can boost a child's confidence and foster a sense of secure attachment. This episode isn't simply an intellectual exercise, it's a journey into the human psyche and the resilience of the mother-child bond in the face of adversity.

Transcript

Maria MacMullin: 0:00

Ruth Guerrero, chief Clinical Officer of Genesis Women's Shelter and Support, is here to discuss the importance of attachment and the impact of domestic violence to this critical emotional bond between parent and child. I'm Maria McMullen and this is Genesis, the podcast. Ruth. Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you, maria. Always good to be with you and talk with you and learn from you. We're here today to talk about attachment. You have decades of experience working with people who experience trauma due to domestic violence and other forms of abuse and I would expect that along the way, you have worked with your clients on attachment and the related issues. I want to dive into all of those details, but can you set up the topic by helping us understand what attachment is and how?

Ruth Guerreiro: 1:12

it plays out. Yeah, absolutely so. When we are talking about attachment, we are referring to the bond or the relationship that a child forms with their primary caregiver. At Genesis, we work with moms and children, and the children's primary caregiver is usually the mom, so I'll be talking about the mom as the caregiver today. And attachment. According to attachment theory, the most critical ages are from birth until age five, and that is when the child is able to create that bond or that attachment with mom, and the whole point is that that attachment is going to be like a template for that child in all of their future relationships as they grow, and so it is actually really important for a child to form a secure attachment.

Maria MacMullin: 2:03

So, not to interrupt the thought, and it just gives me the idea of safety, having a safe place, a safe relationship with someone that the child knows they can rely on for nature and nurture, for example.

Ruth Guerreiro: 2:17

Yeah, absolutely A way to get their needs met, right, yeah, so John Balby is the one who kind of created like the father of attachment theory, basically, and he talks about there's four different types of attachment styles and of course, over the years some people call them different names. Right, but there's these four styles. So the first style is secure attachment, which is the optimal one, that's the one that everybody wants to have or wants children to have, right? Secure attachment means that the mom is able to be consistent in her response to the baby's needs. So when the baby cries, the mom is right there and is attentive. Right, the mom is sensitive to the child's needs. And so what happens is if she can be quick to respond and sensitive and consistent, then that child will learn to feel secure or safe. Like you mentioned, they will explore their surroundings and they're basically a happy child. What the child then learns is that they, that child believes and trusts that their needs are going to be met.

Ruth Guerreiro: 3:23

So the another attachment style would be the avoidant, or some people might call it avoidant, dismissive. And that is when the mom is distant, so she's not really attentive to the child. It could be that she's disengaged, so she's not really actively participating in the child's development right and in the child's needs. So then what happens is the child is not explorative, that they are not kind of crawling around and seeing what's going on in their environment, and they will become emotionally distant. Just like the mom is not engaged, the child will then not engage emotionally and so subconsciously, that child then will begin to believe that their needs probably are not going to be met. So the third style would be ambivalent, or some people call that the anxious or the preoccupied attachment style. And that is when mom is inconsistent, so sometimes she's responsive and sometimes she's not. Sometimes she responds when the child is crying and sometimes the child just is there, left crying. She's sometimes sensitive, sometimes neglectful, right. So you can see how that would cause them, that child, to feel some anxiety, some anxiousness, some insecurity, not understanding what's happening, or maybe even become angry. These children then learn that they cannot rely on their needs being met at all.

Ruth Guerreiro: 4:56

And then the fourth, fourth style of attachment would be the disorganized. Some people also refer to this as avoidant, fearful. But in this style the mom has extreme behaviors. Maybe mom is frightened of being a mom because she's not prepared, she doesn't understand, maybe she's frightening to the child, not on purpose, but maybe there's yelling, you know, because the mom just does not know how to be that caring mother.

Ruth Guerreiro: 5:28

This also could be a passive mom, meaning kind of sitting back and just letting whatever happens happen. So the child, in this disorganized style, can become depressed, passive themselves, angry and even non responsive to when the mom is trying to engage with them, and you can see then that that child would grow up and feel confused on what strategy should I use to get my needs met, and that will follow them throughout their lifetime. So you can see that there's these four different styles. Of course, like I mentioned, we want to have a secure attachment and there are a lot of outside factors that play into what attachment style the mom and that child can create. So, specifically, genesis, we do domestic violence Right right.

Maria MacMullin: 6:18

So domestic violence can impact the attachment style of the mother.

Ruth Guerreiro: 6:22

Yeah, absolutely so.

Ruth Guerreiro: 6:24

Let's say, mom is in a home with the abusive partner, right dad, and he is wanting all of mom's attention, and this is really normal, that he wants to have all of the attention on her and no attention on the children, and so that means she cannot respond to the child crying.

Ruth Guerreiro: 6:42

You know we're going to talk a little bit later about some of his tactics, but another example would be if he is not allowing mom to be the parent that she wants to be, so maybe she would be that secure parent, that secure caregiver for the child, but because he's telling her, no, don't pick them up, let them cry, or you know, no, it's not okay for kids to cry, they need to buck up and you can't go and console them and give them a hug or whatever, and so that's him interfering with her parenting and therefore she can't form that secure attachment with the child.

Ruth Guerreiro: 7:18

Also, our women in domestic violence are having their own emotional responses to the violence. Right, so they could be depressed themselves. They could be very anxious and on edge all of the time. We've talked before about the amygdala and how she's going to be on edge, trying to just be in survival mode. Well then, that does cause her to maybe have this disorganized response or an ambivalent response, because she's not able to attend to the child all of the time, because she's also worried about keeping them safe all together from the abusive partner.

Maria MacMullin: 7:52

Yeah, and add to that equation, especially in the weeks and months following delivery of the child, there's the postpartum emotions and recovery that happen, and so it's very complex when you insert domestic violence or domestic abuse into trying to form an attachment with a new baby. Yeah, absolutely yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about the tactics of the father who is abusive, interfering with building that attachment between mother and child, and what is that like for the child or for the mom?

Ruth Guerreiro: 8:28

Yeah. So I think let's start with what an abuser is like. As a father, right, we talk a lot about how the abuser is abusive towards the woman. As the father, he could be very authoritarian, meaning it's my way or the highway, and he's going to instill fear because that's what he believes will get him respect of his children.

Maria MacMullin: 8:52

Now we're still talking about a child between the ages of birth and five right.

Ruth Guerreiro: 8:56

Well, we are talking about any age right.

Maria MacMullin: 8:59

So an abusive father in general? Yes, an abusive father in general.

Ruth Guerreiro: 9:04

So ages zero to five is going to be the critical time for the formation of the attachment, but of course, you know that children and mothers continue to work on their relationship throughout a lifetime. But yes, whether he is like this when the baby is a baby or when the baby is a teenager, the child is a teenager. Right, we can just see some of these common behaviors in these dads who are abusing their partners. Okay, okay, so authoritarian. He could also be very under involved, because a lot of times it will be that I want all of the authority to make all of the rules and all of the consequences, but I don't want any of the responsibility of actually being a parent. So he's not changing diapers, he's not helping with the homework, he's not helping to teach the chores in the house, right, he's not involved in what's happening at the school system, and so the difficult part on this one, when he is under involved with the children's lives, is that any attention that he does give to the child becomes a very high value to the children. Right, if I don't ever get any attention from my dad, but now he's paying attention to me like that is a really big thing, so that we see that a lot in when parents are divorced and children have to go on visitations with dad and like he is Disney dad during the weekend, that we have him, but then you know, but when they're not with dad, there's absolutely no involvement. That becomes a thing because like, oh, now I just want to, you know, like, idolize my dad because he's wonderful, even though he's not involved in any way in the rest of my life.

Ruth Guerreiro: 10:54

We also see that these dads, these men as fathers, can be very neglectful or irresponsible, right Again, not wanting to take on the responsibility of being a parent, but even putting that into more severe situations. So not using car seats is very common. We hear that all of the time from our clients that the abuser does not use a car seat when transporting the little kids or, you know, a booster seat, right? Well, I think that's also illegal in certain states. Yes, yes, it is Not using seat belts, maybe even driving drunk when he's got the children in the car, whether it's for visitations or even if mom is in the car, and you know it's an innocent and abused situation where he's reckless driving, that's exposing the children to danger and that's him being very neglectful or irresponsible With older kids.

Ruth Guerreiro: 11:48

We hear a lot that dads will have pornography that they're exposing the children to. Really, it's him disrespecting the child. It's what he, his plan is to get whatever he wants, right, he wants his needs met. So that might mean manipulating the children or intimidating the children into being quiet. You know just any of those things you know, exposing them to inappropriate video games at different ages. So we can see that that's a lot of disrespect.

Ruth Guerreiro: 12:22

But that's kind of the picture and of course, not every abusive man is the same, so you could have a little bit of each, or it could be that he's just always authoritarian or he's just very neglectful. There is such a thing as social engineering right, we've talked a little bit about that, I believe, in the past, where social engineering is where the abuser tries to show this outward facade of he's this great dad or he's this great guy, and so it could be that he appears to be very involved in all you know, the PTA and going to all of the parent-teacher conferences and showing up at all every single sports activity. But that doesn't mean that he's emotionally available and that's a tactic again of being able to isolate mom. If he can show the community he's a great guy. Then if mom ever discloses that there's abuse, no one's going to believe her.

Maria MacMullin: 13:16

So there's a wide range of tactics that an abusive parent can use and have at his disposal to manipulate children to their will, whatever the will might be, and a lot of what you describe as these tactics. They don't sound like quote unquote parenting. They sound like this is a guy who fathered the child and he's just still the guy. He's not the parent, right.

Ruth Guerreiro: 13:46

Yeah, yeah, you know. Another tactic that's really common is using the children as weapons. So we have clients who will tell us that the abuser now is bribing the children to tell on her. This is true whether they're still together or not in the relationship. Right and well, you know, what did mom do today and where was mom and who did mom talk to? It's really common to bribe the teenagers into looking at mom's phone and making sure that now he's tracking her through the children. And, of course, when you're bribing the children, it's I'll get you a new cell phone or I'll give you a hundred bucks or I'll take you to Six Flags.

Ruth Guerreiro: 14:26

Whatever it is right that the kiddo wants, it could be again with that interfering with her parenting, so stopping her from being able to establish limits or consequences. It could also be very much this kind of traditional gender role situation that he is adding to in the home, and so only the daughters have to clean the dishes and make the beds, but the sons get to sit on the couch and watch TV and play and they don't have to pick up their toys Again. If you think about what's the message that he's sending and I know you asked a little bit about how this affects kids and I can talk more about that in a minute. But this message of I get to do whatever I want and also, girls are less than boys right that it's okay to be angry, it's okay to yell and hit other people when I'm angry, because I want to back up and say, of course it is okay to feel angry, but not okay to be aggressive, right, right?

Speaker 3: 15:30

That's what I meant.

Ruth Guerreiro: 15:32

You know, there's this idea that he can also undermine mom's authority with the children in the home, and so what that would look like is, let's say, mom says, hey, it's time to pick up the toys, right, it's time to go to bed. And dad says oh man, she's no fun. She's no fun, we have to. You know, we're just having so much fun. She doesn't understand. You don't have to listen to mom, let's just play one more game, right? So what again? What is he teaching? That kids don't have to listen to mom. And he can do this very directly or also indirectly.

Maria MacMullin: 16:10

So we have comments like that can be settled, but over time they can build up and it's it's coercive control.

Ruth Guerreiro: 16:16

That's exactly right, yeah, yeah, so we have clients talk about you. Know how he'll tell the kids your mom doesn't love you, she doesn't know how to be a good mom. And maybe he's also being verbally and emotionally abusive to her in front of the children. So saying things like you're worth nothing, you're a terrible mom, right. So blaming her a lot in front of the children also will just undermine that authority so that later on, whether when he's not home and she's trying to be the mom in an appropriate way and set limits and give consequences, they're going to say oh, I don't have to listen to you, right? And what does everybody outside see? She's a bad parent. Those kids are spoiled. She doesn't have control of her kids, right. So, like it very much causes her some shame and some guilt on what is everyone thinking, especially when they're out in public, you know, at church or at the school or at the store, even.

Maria MacMullin: 17:19

Well, I mean experts will tell you, even outside of abusive relationships, inconsistent parenting is confusing to everyone, but most of all to children. And you will not get good results if you're not consistent in your in the way that you parent, you know when you approach.

Maria MacMullin: 17:39

If you're, if you're constantly changing the consequence or letting things slide this time but then making a big deal out of it next time, the kids gonna be confused, they're not really gonna know what to do. And that kind of brings us back to what we were, you know, initially talking about is attachment. If your attachment style is inconsistent or fades over time, it confuses the child and they become a confused adult. Onto your point how to have their needs appropriately met, right, yeah, absolutely.

Ruth Guerreiro: 18:13

So I think the important take away about these tactics because we can go on and on and there are just so many examples of different tax tactics that an abusive man will use as a parent but it's really important to stress that it doesn't stop after separation or divorce, right? So she's mom is kind of stuck with him for the rest of the children's lives because he is going to continue. These tactics might look a little different when he's outside of the home and to your point about inconsistency, then, when they are separated and kids have two homes that they're going back and forth in and there's different rules at different houses and different expectations, it does just kind of demonstrate in their behaviors and their emotional responses, in their school performance, in their social performance.

Maria MacMullin: 19:06

So I may be getting ahead of us here, but I'm curious how this type of upbringing affects the mother adult child relationship. So once they've grown, they've established themselves as an adult, what can there, what can the outcomes for that relationship be? Can there be positive or negative?

Ruth Guerreiro: 19:29

Yeah, you know, of course, as a therapist I'm going to say that hopefully they're going to get some counseling and get some help on that, and I feel like that gives a lot of hope in having some positive outcomes. I can say anecdotally with all of the clients that I've worked with children, even if they are aligned with abusive father, as they grow up they start to see what's really happening and they start to see oh, my mom does love me because she has proven it through X, y and Z, being consistent in telling me she loves me and being there when I'm having a hard time, all of those things right. And so I am happy to report that all of the clients that I've worked with their children have eventually and sometimes they go back and forth right between a lying with dad and not but as they've gotten older they do eventually see, oh, this is not, this wasn't my mom's fault, my mom didn't deserve that abuse. My dad is the one who's causing all these problems. My dad is lying to me and my dad is, you know, breaking promises to me too type of a thing.

Ruth Guerreiro: 20:38

So I've seen it that way. Or the opposite is that it's not that it's a bad relationship, but the kids are just tired of dealing with it, and so I'm in a love mom and dad and it's neither person's fault and neither one of them, you know, need to talk to me about it and so she can then have a relationship with her adult children. Of course she's going to be, you know, she's going to have her own feelings, that she's going to have, and so I think that's one of the things that we talk about in super, in counseling, of course, about how she doesn't feel supported by her children, but at least she also doesn't feel blamed by them, or, you know, they haven't rejected her as much as he has tried.

Maria MacMullin: 21:22

OK, so all of this would amount to some trauma right, right, ok, let's talk about attachment trauma.

Ruth Guerreiro: 21:28

Yes, ok. So attachment trauma basically is a traumatic event where there is a disruption in the bonding process. So there's four kind of categories that would equal attachment trauma. So the first would be neglect or physical abuse or sexual abuse by a parent. The second would be any type of major pain or a medical intervention or hospitalization where the child believes that the parent could stop, like the parent could protect them from but didn't protect them from. Whether or not that's real Correct, that would be that could still be considered an attachment trauma. The third one, then, is a loss or removal from parents, so like a death or foster care situation. And then the fourth is witnessing domestic violence.

Maria MacMullin: 22:22

Wow, it's interesting that that is a number on the list. Yes, exactly.

Ruth Guerreiro: 22:28

That's specifically Yep, and so we see that very often in our clients. Now, when you say domestic violence.

Maria MacMullin: 22:35

is that everything under the umbrella of domestic violence?

Ruth Guerreiro: 22:38

It is OK, yep, so a children witnessing? It doesn't have to be physical, correct, yep, the children witnessing mom being mistreated, abused verbally, emotionally, physically, sexually by her intimate partner, whether that's the child's dad or not child's dad.

Maria MacMullin: 22:54

So that is an attachment trauma. On which? Attachment On the child, the child and the mother, yes, or who OK?

Ruth Guerreiro: 23:02

Yep, yeah, because that mom is that main primary caregiver, and so that's what the, where the attachment is formed, and so, yes, it's the trauma on that attachment between the mother and the child. Ok, how do we deal with that? Right? So a genesis. We provide a lot of different services to help with attachment, like help healing through attachment, and so we have a lot of different ways to deal with attachment therapy.

Maria MacMullin: 23:31

Before we talk, about that, can we talk about?

Ruth Guerreiro: 23:33

kind of the effects of all of this.

Maria MacMullin: 23:34

Yes, yes.

Ruth Guerreiro: 23:35

I meant I meant to ask that question. Ok, no problem, just want to kind of I feel like that's a good stepping stone for this. So, with all of the tactics that he's using, right and this causing this, this trauma, this attachment trauma for the children, children then are going to feel fear. They might feel guilty that they didn't stop the abuse or they didn't protect mom, or they think that they did something wrong to cause dad to act this way and you might see some anger towards mom because she didn't stop the abuse, she didn't stop the abuser from doing whatever it was that he's doing Again. Children then can grow up and to believe I don't want to say grow up they can believe this as children also that it is mom's fault or that mom doesn't deserve respect. We talked a little bit about that. So you're going to see some aggression. They might imitate the abusers behaviors, which is really difficult for mom because then she could be triggered by the child imitating some of the behaviors or the facial expressions or even using some of the same words that the dad would use towards mom. It could be that the children don't accept responsibility for their own actions because they have had this model of this father not ever accepting responsibility for his own actions and not ever taking accountability and really making changes. This then causes mom, of course, to feel sad, to feel hurt.

Ruth Guerreiro: 25:19

We know that mom's number one reason to stay in an abusive relationship is for the children.

Ruth Guerreiro: 25:25

Her children are the number one important thing for her, and so when dad starts to sow these divisions in the family and to try to get in there and get the kids against mom, she's feeling like she's losing their love.

Ruth Guerreiro: 25:43

We have mom say oh, I can't leave my abusive partner because if I do, my kids will choose to stay with him instead of coming with me, and I don't trust that they're going to be safe with him, so I'm going to stay to help protect my children. It could be that she feels like she's in this double bind, right? Because if she doesn't fight back to the abuser, then the kids are mad that she didn't fight back to stop him from hurting her or stop him from yelling and screaming at the kids even. And if she does fight back and she does try to stand up for herself or for the children, then he will escalate and so again, then it's like that's also not helping the situation, right, because then kids are mad. Well, why did you fight back? You should have just kept your mouth closed. You shouldn't have told, right? I had a client say my mom shouldn't have told him that he needed to move his shoes, because that's when, that's when dad hit her.

Maria MacMullin: 26:39

That's what set it off Right. And finally, what we're talking about is dad's target is mom. Yes, that's his, that's his chosen victim to abuse. What he chooses to do, however he chooses to abuse her, impacts the rest of the family. So I mean, basically, the attachment is broken deliberately by dad because he's targeting mom, the key figure in this child's life.

Ruth Guerreiro: 27:11

Right, and he usually knows, because the kids are mom's most important thing. That's how he can get at her, especially after separation and divorce.

Maria MacMullin: 27:21

And I think that's a very important point that you just made because he is no longer the center of her universe, if you will, because children often become central to the mother's attention most of the time and in an immature or abusive father or partner they will see that as an affront to them. You know, and they want to be the center of her universe.

Ruth Guerreiro: 27:50

Right, yep, yep. And there's a really strong correlation between child abuse and partner abuse, right? The number one predictor of child abuse is that if that partner, that husband, that stepdad is abusing the mother of those children and so it does turn into I'm going to abuse these kids as a way to get to you as well.

Maria MacMullin: 28:12

Exactly. And there are those who argue you know experts who argue that all domestic violence includes child abuse period, and I would tend to agree with that. I mean hearing what you're saying, especially how domestic violence can break this bond between a mother and child. That is abusive, right, and there's a lot of fear between the bond between a parent and a child. That would be abusive.

Ruth Guerreiro: 28:38

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I think that also, like if you take a step back and not just even thinking about the relationship, but mom, as a parent, she now is going to question her ability or her capability of being a good mom. And because he's undermined her authority, she has a lot of proof that she's not a good mom, because the kids aren't listening Right, they aren't doing what she's wanting them to do. Um, so so, just like you're saying, it does really affect the whole family.

Maria MacMullin: 29:09

Well, his demand for control causes her to have a lack of control. Yes, and then it. It clearly diminishes not only her role but her ability to parent, and then her opinion of herself and then the opinion of others about how she is as a parent.

Ruth Guerreiro: 29:27

Yeah, yeah, so luckily Genesis, we do have some things that we do. There is hope.

Maria MacMullin: 29:32

Yes, there are ways to help these children, but the trauma itself from you know, this break in attachment, is this confusion, frustration, anger, and it plays out in a lot of different ways, which you talked about some of them. Um, so when these children are presented to you as a counselor, what are you looking at, Like what's? What's walking into your office?

Ruth Guerreiro: 29:52

Yeah, um. You know, you can tell there's there's that disruption in that relationship. There might not be any trust, there might be some really negative feelings towards each other, um, which is going to be common and that's not anybody's fault except for the abusers. Who has created that, right, um? So we'll see kids who maybe even are very aloof to what mom is doing or saying, um. We'll see a lot of especially with teenagers, lots of fighting and arguing in the home. You might even see children who don't want to separate from mom. So mom is coming in for an appointment. We put the kids in our childcare trauma and child care room, um, but sometimes those kids don't want to separate from mom because now they're so nervous about what could happen to mom if I'm not with her and I need my needs met Right. So it's, um, it's too enmeshed. Is what we would say?

Ruth Guerreiro: 30:50

Yeah, um, again, that that attachment um, that separation anxiety, right, um, could, could kind of form when we're having some attachment trauma, Um. So some of the things that we would do we provide attachment therapy, right. Attachment therapy is basically helping the mom and that child recreate or establish or even increase their relationship and their bond. So we'll do attachment therapy, even if there hasn't been a really big noticeable attachment um problem between the two of them. If, if they do seem to have like a good relationship because mom has been able to stay stable and secure with them, um, we will still do some attachment work just because they've experienced domestic violence, which means there has been some type of attachment trauma. So we'll do individual attachment therapy, which means one mom with one child um being able to do so. We would do different activities to help them to. You know mom, to practice eye contact or physical proximity or positive physical touch. We talk about using effective praise. We talk about building the child's confidence through play and being able to cooperate together. Having mom put a hundred percent of her attention on the child meaning we put the cell phones to the side Right, and and usually if our moms have more than one child, she doesn't have a lot of time at home to spend just one on one time. So really being able to have a therapist there to facilitate that we are looking for helping mom become a therapeutic agent for her child. So, philly Oath, play therapy is a common theory that we use, a common therapy type um to really being able to help mom become that therapeutic agent, because coming to counseling with us for 45 minutes once a week is not that much, but if we can have mom be there and be that therapeutic person for that child, they're going to have that for the rest of their life, right, and all of the hours outside of the counseling room.

Ruth Guerreiro: 33:04

We also will do attachment groups, our multiple moms and each of them come with one child each, and then we again we're doing different activities.

Ruth Guerreiro: 33:16

We talk a lot about how, if relation, if trauma, happens inside relationships, then healing has to happen inside of relationships, and so we we feel very strongly that we can help to combat the effects of trauma and effects of domestic violence by being able to help increase these, these attachment skills. We also do family night once a week and that is just for any of our moms to bring in all of their kids, and we have different attachment activities that we're doing in there. We do EMDR, of course, because of the trauma right? Um, we talked a little bit about that, but for those who haven't heard that podcast episode, it's eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing, and it's a specific type of trauma processing or therapy that we can do with the kids. But when we do attachment work with EMDR. It's a beautiful thing because we have mom and child together and mom is doing the eye movements or the tapping with the child, so that both of them are healing together and they're being able to co-regulate Wow.

Maria MacMullin: 34:21

That is amazing. That actually kind of gave me the chills thinking about how much that potentially could restore bond it really does Between mother and child.

Ruth Guerreiro: 34:31

Yeah, so I think that's one of my favorite sessions, some of my favorite to see that child heal through that we use a story template and being able to see mom really be there with the child in the journey and help them to have a stronger bond.

Maria MacMullin: 34:46

Okay, let me ask you a question about this. Sure, so we have these attachment therapy sessions, either individual, group or family night. Are there tools and takeaways that both mom and child can use once they leave therapy at home, even if they're living with the abusers? There are ways that they can continue to kind of build that bond?

Ruth Guerreiro: 35:07

Yes, I love that question because my philosophy is everything that I'm doing, I'm working myself out of a job, meaning that I'm going to teach my clients how they can then use this outside of the counseling room Right, so all of the attachment activities that we do are free.

Ruth Guerreiro: 35:27

Or we can do so many things that are just with a cotton ball or with stickers right. So something that she can do at home with the children definitely not when the abuser is present. But I also really love the idea of creating rituals. So we know that children are more successful when they feel like they belong to a group, right, so creating rituals in a family can really help the children feel like, ooh, I belong to this family, right, and this is our tradition. So there's a book that I love called I Love you Rituals by Becky Bailey, and I really have used this so much in my attachment groups because I'll help mom and kiddo create some type of a ritual that they're going to do together, and then they can do that in front of abuser. Abuser doesn't know what it is, right.

Maria MacMullin: 36:24

And it could be give us an example of one specific thing.

Ruth Guerreiro: 36:27

Yeah, so it could be. So what Becky Bailey has done is taken like well-known nursery rhymes, but changed the words a little bit. And so then it's like a special handshake that you and then you say a certain, you know a few certain words together and that's what you do every day before you go off to school, and then when you come home from school that's the first thing that you do together, and then when you go to bed at night that's what you do. And so, right, like there's a one of my favorite, that's really simple.

Ruth Guerreiro: 36:55

You would oh, I don't know how, if I can explain it without showing you, but you know the nursery rhyme Jack be nimble, Jack, be quick, Jack, jump over the candlestick, right.

Ruth Guerreiro: 37:06

But instead you would say it three times, different words, but use your pinkies to like give your pinkies hug, and then you would do a handshake and then you do your arms to give a big hug, and so it would be Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack, come give me a hug quick, Right, and so that type of a thing.

Ruth Guerreiro: 37:25

Or there she changed the words to twinkle, twinkle, little star, and there's little hand motions that you do with the little child to help them, and at the end it ends with what a wonderful child. You are Right. So it's just little things like that, that if we can teach these moms how to do that or again, we do cotton ball races and then I send her home with cotton balls so that she can do this at home. But to your point, she can then do this for the rest of her life and the rest of the child's life. If she has more than one child, she's in therapy with one kid, but now she can use this with all of the kids. So she's helping to repair those relationships with all of the children.

Maria MacMullin: 38:03

Right, and it goes on for a lifetime? I would think it does, and it can change over time as their maturity level changes and new traditions, new rituals, new ways of expressing that engagement can be created every day. That's the beauty of it. Right, yeah, and we were. And once you start doing it, you never really stop. I know, like with my own kids, they'll introduce a new thing that we're going to do. This is what we're going to do now. When I come home from school, I'm going to fist bump you and I'm going to give you a hug and then you're going to make me a snack, like you know, like those. Those just isn't a silly example. But when it works both ways, when it starts to be not just mom initiating those rituals, I would think that would be where the true magic begins to happen.

Ruth Guerreiro: 38:53

Yeah, I love when moms come in and say oh you know, my kiddo told me what you guys were doing in therapy and so now we do it together too. That's beautiful, yeah.

Maria MacMullin: 39:02

That's beautiful.

Ruth Guerreiro: 39:03

So I do. I agree with you. You know, if they can turn these into habits, then yes, it's easier to sustain that. And of course, rituals and attachment therapy looks different at different ages. Right, so we have different games that we would do for little kids but then we've adapted it for, like, middle-aged kids and then teenagers. It's very different, but we're still doing attachment therapy with teenagers and moms.

Maria MacMullin: 39:30

Yeah, and what else are we doing? A visitation camp, I think.

Ruth Guerreiro: 39:33

Yeah, I was going to mention visitation camp, thank you. So Genesis has visitation camp, which is for the children who have visits with non-custodial dad and dad was the abusive partner. We do, we do offer visitation camp in a few different formats, but it really is focused on helping to strengthen that bond between the mom and the child before having to be separated when child is with dad and then, once child comes back into mom's home again being able to reestablish that attachment and that relationship and to heal from whatever trauma was happened, had happened during the visitation, while they were separated. Of course we're doing a lot of safety planning as well, but that's not the topic for today, and so we'll do visitation camp for the summer and for the winter. We have monthly drop-in visitation camp groups and then a lot of times we'll do visitation camp in individual counseling as well. That just means we're adding an extra layer of some of that attachment work.

Maria MacMullin: 40:41

When we're talking about children going to visitation with the abusive parent and things become inconsistent each time, right? So that's one way with mom, it's another way with dad. Like you said, you know the Disneyland dad. How does this impact the length of time that it takes to reestablish attachment and really heal?

Ruth Guerreiro: 41:04

I think that's a fair question. The reality is that it's going to take longer because there is this constant disruption, there's this constant exposure to the abusive partner, the abusive parent, which means that the child in Magdala is going to keep lighting up to keep themselves safe because they're feeling scared when they're with dad, or maybe that subconscious level right, they wouldn't verbalize I'm scared of dad, but subconsciously, their body. We talk about how the body remembers the trauma, right, and so having those trauma symptoms or somatic symptoms inside of the body could be happening, even if the child doesn't verbally realize, oh, because my dad is scary, but there's this unease and so, yeah, unfortunately it takes longer. The post-traumatic stress symptoms that children exhibit when there's continued contact with the abusive father, they don't diminish as quickly, they might not ever go away 100%. So we talk to moms about, okay, we don't have control over this, right, the court has said that they have to have visits with dad, but what do we have control over?

Ruth Guerreiro: 42:21

And then we talk to moms about what she can do when she has the children to counteract the trauma that they're experiencing when they're with dad or that separation. And so I do, as frustrating as it is because there's a lot of things outside of our control and outside of mom's control. She does have control in constantly letting the kids know that she loves them and paying attention to them and working on that relationship, and so I couldn't do this job if I didn't have any hope. So I have to say I do have hope that there is healing taking place. It might not be 100%, but 90% is better than 20% and to your point.

Maria MacMullin: 43:01

the courts really need to be educated and evaluated for how they handle visitation with abusive parents, but that is a different show. What resources on this topic could you recommend to professionals who work with survivors, and maybe even to survivors themselves who want to learn more?

Ruth Guerreiro: 43:20

Yes. So there's a few books I already mentioned. I Love you Rituals by Becky Bailey. That's a really easy book. It has several different ritual ideas and she talks about the idea of rituals and then she explains the hand motions. So I love that one for moms to use as well as professionals. And Lendi Bancroft, of course, wrote when Dad Hurts Mom. That one is specifically for children who have witnessed domestic violence, but he does such an excellent job of talking about how it affects the children and mom and their relationship, and at the end of every chapter he gives a list of what can mom do. So what are the takeaways for mom? So I love that one.

Ruth Guerreiro: 44:04

There's another book called Therapy. So therapy therapy. It's a specific therapy type that you have to get lots of training on, Right, but you can buy the book without being trained and the book has a lot of really great activities that you can do whether you're a parent. It really is written for professionals. But therapy is by Phyllis Booth, Then Dr Karen Purvis.

Ruth Guerreiro: 44:31

She was at the Texas Christian University, TCU. She created what is known as TBRI, which is Trust Based Relational Intervention. Tbri, I think, is wonderful. It's not a therapy, it's this model for parents to use with children who have been traumatized. We use it a lot in our therapy, in our children's childcare, in our school, at Genesis, and she also has a book that's called the Connected Parent Excellent book for parents to read on how do you really use attachment theory to help raise your children. Another parenting book that I love that's really based on attachment is Connection Parenting, and that's by Pam Leo, probably one of my most favorite parenting books. I've read a lot but just the idea of really being able to help build connection and attachment with your child, rather than fear and coercion in helping your children to grow up to be successful adults. And then, finally, I did online. There is the Attachment and Trauma Network, and they have some really great resources as well, just like some articles and other things. Professionals are wanting to read more about that.

Maria MacMullin: 45:56

Those are outstanding. The Genesis website has an education menu that you can explore as well at genesisshelterorg. If you really want to learn more, if you are a survivor and you have questions where you want to talk to someone about counseling, you can contact Genesis Shelter at 214946-HELP 214946-4357. Ruth, it's been a pleasure, thank you.

Ruth Guerreiro: 46:21

Thank you. Can I end with one quote? Of course so. Dr Bruce Perry is a national expert on child abuse and he wrote the book the Boy who Was Raised as A Dog very difficult to read because of the stories, but I love this quote that I would love to end with. He says the more healthy relationships a child has, the more likely he will be to recover from trauma and thrive. Relationships are the agents of change and the most powerful therapy is human love. That's beautiful.

Maria MacMullin: 46:53

Thank you. Thank you. Attention, Spanish-speaking listeners. Listen to the end of this podcast for information on how to reach a Spanish-speaking representative of Genesis.

Speaker 3: 47:04

Attention Spanish-speaking listeners. Listen to this podcast until the end to receive information on how to communicate with the person of Genesis in Spanish.

Maria MacMullin: 47:14

If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, you can get help or give help at genesisshelterorg or by calling or texting our 24-7 Crisis Hotline team at 214-946-HELP 214-946-4357. Bilingual services at Genesis include text, phone call, clinical counseling, legal services, advocacy and more. Call or text us for more information. Donations to support women and children escaping domestic violence are always needed. Learn more at genesisshelterorg slash donate. Thanks for joining us and reminding you always that ending domestic violence begins when we believe her Genesis.

Speaker 3: 47:58

the podcast announces Bilingual Services available in Genesis Women's Shelter eSupport. If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, you can get help or give help at genesisshelterorg slash donate. Bilingual services at Genesis Women's Shelter eSupport. Learn more at genesisshelterorg slash donate.