Genesis The Podcast

Empowering Change: Sheerin Gryloo's Journey of Advocacy and Resilience

• Genesis Women's Shelter

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In this episode, Sheerin Gryloo's journey unfolds as a testament to resilience and advocacy. A first-generation Iranian American, Sheerin shares her family's immigration experience and the challenges they overcame in the United States. Her narrative is deeply rooted in cultural pride, shaped by celebrations like the Persian New Year, while also acknowledging the sacrifices her parents made following the Iranian Revolution.

Central to Sheerin's story is her advocacy for women's rights and systemic change. She bravely discusses her personal experiences with sexual violence and the Title IX process, shedding light on the complexities survivors face in seeking justice and healing. Sheerin's insights underscore the urgent need for better education on sexual violence and comprehensive support systems for survivors.

The episode highlights Sheerin's initiatives, including the founding of the Women's Advocacy Initiative, aimed at empowering survivors and driving systemic reform, and her co-founding of Untitled Nine focused on improving metrics and prevention strategies for sexual violence in educational settings. Sheerin emphasizes the critical importance of supporting organizations like Genesis, which provide vital services for domestic violence survivors.

Sheerin’s journey offers a poignant exploration of cultural identity and the imperative for societal change. Her story not only informs but also inspires listeners to take action, supporting initiatives that champion survivors' rights and contribute to a more just and equitable world.

Speaker 1:

Shereen Grylow, survivor and founder of the Women's Advocacy Initiative, joins the show to share her experience of sexual violence and how that led to helping other survivors. I'm Maria McMullin and this is Genesis the podcast. A native of Washington DC, Shereen Grilo graduated from the College of William Mary with a double major in economics and psychology and a minor in art history. Shireen is the founder and chairman of the Women's Advocacy Initiative, a nonprofit organization dedicated to eliminating the barriers that prevent victims of sexual violence from reporting their assailants. She has spoken to women and girls at numerous institutions on the immense value of self-advocacy and works with colleges and universities to actively reform their Title IX processes and sexual assault prevention initiatives. For several years, she has volunteered with survivors of domestic abuse and sexual assault, hosting weekly virtual support groups.

Speaker 1:

This episode includes details of sexual violence and addiction that some may find troubling or triggering. Shireen, welcome to the podcast, Thank you so much for having me. And you grew up in Washington DC, right, that's correct, and your parents immigrated from Iran. How long has your family been in the United States?

Speaker 2:

My mother, came pre-revolution, so it's been quite a while. My father came about two years after the revolution and they've been here I want to say it's been a bit over 40 years now. So I was born in DC and they've lived here for their whole lives. I've lived, I've moved around quite a bit, some because of my schooling, some for work, but yeah, dc has always been my home base, and the same with my parents as well.

Speaker 1:

I love DC and I guess that makes you a first generation American. Right it does, yes.

Speaker 2:

Or a third culture kid as well. I feel like, as everyone is saying, oh yeah, that's really interesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it's that, especially, you know, post 9-11, being Middle Eastern. And it's interesting too because my family is not Muslim. I come from a very long line of atheists, which is a very unusual thing to say about, you know, iranians. I may be the first to say that, but I certainly had my moments when I was much younger, you know, wishing I was white, was I were European. Um, just to avoid you know so many reactions, and I was very lucky I did not have to really face, um, I never experienced any kind of, you know, hate crime, anything like that.

Speaker 2:

But so many people would say they did not, they did not know what Iran was. I was like, well, it's really not my job to show you a globe or a map, and it just felt simpler, you know, to say like, oh, I'm Greek, so you know. Or Italian, one of those like it's white, it's European, but you look a little darker, perhaps there's some North African in there. So when I was a kid, I would really just kind of avoid saying that. And then I went to school overseas for a bit and, you know, things changed quite a lot. I met a lot of international students and I very much grew, you know proud of. You know, just thinking of what my parents went through, you know, the immense amount of, I guess I think of my life, I guess in comparison to them, and it's so think of like Paris Hilton versus like some, you know, somebody who's working 20 hours a day, it's just the comparison is crazy and I think about how lucky and how privileged I am. But you know, they worked so incredibly hard and it's a very interesting thing in Iran to money in and of itself.

Speaker 2:

After the revolution, after the Ayatollah was, you know, put in place, the Shah was kicked out, assets were frozen, they were seized. So my mother, she went. You know, her family had quite a bit of money. They went from that to nothing overnight. And so at age 14, she was living in Boston. My bipolar grandfather had just sent all his kids over to Boston for their education and she was working like three jobs. Wow, and no, it was absolutely crazy to think. You know, all that time, and you know I think about what I was doing at 14.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, which was really nothing like that right.

Speaker 2:

No, absolutely Just a life that I was very privileged to not have to live.

Speaker 1:

When did you get to the point where you felt like you could say to people I'm Iranian and not you know some other ethnicity that maybe that would be more palpable for them.

Speaker 2:

Sure, no, I think when I was about 13, I want to say, is when that happened, and that was really when I was meeting a lot more international students, people from you know absolutely all over the world, just because of my schooling and I think I also, I stopped caring.

Speaker 2:

I realized that nobody else cared and it was in my head really, you know, speaking with my friends, speaking with the people who were in my social circles Sure, there may be some random person out there who's going to give me, you know, do something about it, like going to call me some kind of slut or whatever, but obviously not the people that I interact with. And I think a lot of it actually, it has to do with putting faith in the people that you keep in your social circles, the people that you love, the people you care about. And I do remember it really kind of started with Nohru's Persian New Year. My parents would always let me take the day off school for that, and just telling people about that was kind of the first time that I was speaking about, you know, iranian culture, persian culture, and that felt kind of huge. That felt like a very monumental shift and after that it just really kept going, and it was like I kind of unblocked something in my mind at that point.

Speaker 1:

That's great, and that was at a young age too. I mean 13 is kind of really young, but then you went to college here in the United States College of William and Mary, and in the last year of college so there's a lot between here and there, right, we're talking like 10 years between what we just talked about and then the last year of college for you you had an experience of sexual violence perpetrated by a fellow student. Can you share with us what happened to you?

Speaker 2:

Of course. So I mean I often start off when I'm sharing my story by saying that the Title IX case I went through my final year of undergrad. That was not the first time that I had been sexually assaulted, but it was the first time that I reported it and that is a distinction that to me is very important to make, that I had been on both sides of that reporting and not reporting, especially given what the nonprofit or what the Women's Advocacy Initiative really aims to do, which is support women who would like to report their perpetrators. And you know I never want to sound like I'm on some kind of high horse and you know like this is what I do, this is what everybody else has to do, so I really, really like them. Besides the fact that I have been on both sides, when it happened I had chalked it up as a bad experience, as I think so many women do, so many of us do.

Speaker 2:

A year later, I was speaking with a friend and found out that she had also had a bad experience with the exact same man. I spoke with another person we got four names just from speaking to a couple of people and I had come forward and I realized that nobody else had pursued a case or filed any kind of report without pursuing a Title IX complaint, which was always an option and I thought, well, okay, I guess it has to be me, which, you know, I do remember thinking I'm I'm probably the worst person to do this but at the same time, potentially the best, because I had always my entire life been uh, my parents would would probably call it a loud mouth or a micromanager, but it's what I call self-advocacy. Um, I was always speaking up for myself. I would never sit down and take something if I didn't feel like it was right myself, I would never sit down and take something if I didn't feel like it was right, and that was something that proved to be the most valuable component of this case. And I think, just another reason why I did not immediately connect what happened to me with sexual assault, with rape, was because I think it's so much of the misconceptions we have around sexual violence that it is a one singular violent act as opposed to a culmination, a series of events that can lead to a violent act.

Speaker 2:

Saying no over and over again, perhaps in a very playful way, because you don't want to incite any anger. And then the notion of just of giving in, because what is the alternative? To say no, to walk away, the risk that is taken with that I think we often talk about, you know, saying no, as that is really like consent 101, right no means no. Saying no it's, you know, portrayed as some kind of the ultimate, you know act of standing up for yourself when it's really a terrible risk that we can take as women. And I had no idea what implicit coercion was at the time.

Speaker 2:

I did not realize that, you know, I had been broken down, that the threat of violence that had existed in that moment was what broke me down and that that counted as sexual violence, that that counted as rape, until I went to the Title IX office and we were talking about there were four separate complaints against him, and it was when I was telling my story. They said, oh no, that's rape, that's non-consensual sexual intercourse. That is another complaint, and I had no idea that it counted. And this is something I say quite often. But I know a few women who will say they have been raped. But every single woman I know has had a bad experience. As we say, and it is such a terrible euphemism.

Speaker 2:

I think it's masking violence, it's masking a crime and you know it's difficult to tell. Is it masking it for ourselves, for our own sake, so we don't have to cope with? You know what comes next, with all the possibilities that come next? Or is it because we are not taught? Because the education around this is so? I want to say honestly, it's facile. Education around this is so, I want to say honestly, it's facile, it's very limited. When we talk about consent, it is incredibly narrow. We don't talk about implicit coercion, we don't talk about power dynamics. We don't talk about these crucial, crucial things that come into play in most of these situations.

Speaker 2:

And when I came forward I think I say this quite often you know I was again the worst possible victim and you know I had a documented history of both mental illness and, you know, substance misuse with the school. I had come forward a year later. There was prior consent with the assailant. There was contact afterwards with the assailant as well for a couple months. No physical evidence. It was truly you know my word against his, and these are all. I really can't think of a single other thing that would have stacked up against me. They really caught them all, like a Pokemon Just got to catch them all. But you know that it's really. It really did not mean anything to me and I I think this is kind of a broader thing where this there's a misconception that you know women will come forward because they have physical evidence. My fitbit absolutely showed that at this time, you know, my heart rate was very high, or like gps showed that I was at this place. Or you know this rape heart rate was very high, or like GPS showed that I was at this place, or you know this rape kit. We think about the number of untested rape kits and hundreds of thousands of untested rape kits, and that's not why women don't come forward. We don't come forward because of shame. We don't come forward because of victim blaming, the victim blaming that exists so uniquely within the sphere of sexual violence, this blame that we do not see with other forms of violent crime.

Speaker 2:

And I was very lucky. I was very lucky because I did not feel shame. I simply saw myself as a victim of a violent crime and you know, there was no difference to me. No-transcript, it is the same as fists. It is the ultimate form of degradation, humiliation, and when there is an oppressor, it is something that will always be used upon the oppressed. Why is it a tool of war? Why is it something we see in prisons? Anything where there must be a power dynamic, we see this kind of violence, and it doesn't have to do with sex at all.

Speaker 2:

And I was lucky enough, I think, that I know self-advocacy. I'd always been that way since I was a child. I'd always self-advocated, advocated, and I know there are so many people who you know not only does it, whether they're unable to or, you know, they don't know how to, and it is absolutely a place of privilege that I was able to walk into the Title IX office almost every single day, micromanage them, ask them exactly where they were. You know, with every single part of the process, the fact that you know I was basically playing Nancy Drew out here. I was doing half the investigative work. I found false witness testimonies, all these things that weren't my job. And they sit you down when you come in originally and they tell you. All you need to do is tell the truth and the rest is our job. And I knew in that moment absolutely not, because this was the most important thing in my life and there was no way I was going to entrust this to anybody else.

Speaker 2:

And when I talk about self-advocacy, I think that is really the core of it. It's that baseline of understanding that you deserve a level of respect, dignity and compassion that you will not be getting from so many people, even if they mean incredibly well. It is, what you give yourself is really not what you are going to be getting to others. Understanding that you deserve that and demanding that are the absolute core of self-advocacy and that was what I was demanding. And when it came to the outcome of the case, it was what was considered favorable. I was told that it was.

Speaker 2:

The sanctions given out were the harshest William and Mary had given out in 10 years, and I was absolutely infuriated because there was no way my case was the absolute worst in 10 years and, as I mentioned, there was the lack of so much evidence. It was very much she said. She said and I was told by my advisor, by a couple of the deans as well that it had to do with how I presented my story, with how I pushed, how I advocated for myself, how I was able to answer those questions. And you know the questions meant to shame us without shame. And I think these are the things that we often use to discredit ourselves and, better use, to discredit other survivors, things like being in contact with your assailant after, which is one of the most common things in the world.

Speaker 2:

And when I was asked, you know why were you in contact with someone you claimed you feared? Why were you in contact with someone you claimed assaulted you? And the answer to me was very simple Because of that fear, because I wanted to maintain some kind of cordial relationship. I didn't want to be hated. And that's because I wanted to maintain some kind of cordial relationship. I didn't want to be hated. And that's the most integral thing to being human, I think, is connection is wanting to be liked, wanting to be loved, even in so many cases, and wanting to convince ourselves, perhaps, that something heinous was not done to us, that perhaps it was a misunderstanding, perhaps I overreacted, perhaps this was a good person that I was talking to, and that is one of the core things that is used to discredit so many survivors, and it's what we use often to discredit ourselves, I think.

Speaker 1:

Are you able to share with us the outcomes of the case, like what sanctions were imposed? Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

So he was given a two-year minimum suspension, with re-entry to the school allowed, given he had to attend therapy and it was sign off from a therapist. And so I appealed because I was saying this is insane. He was found responsible for every single charge which was there was sexual harassment. He had sent a number of nude videos of himself unsolicited. I had told him to stop. He kept sending them. Sexual harassment, there was molestation, there was fondling and non-consensual sexual intercourse. I believe I might be confusing one of those, but there were four found responsible for all of them. And yet the school decided well, you know what? Let's give you another chance. We are fine having somebody that we have decided is a rapist on campus. I'm actually not supposed to call him a rapist if I am to talk about it, because legally that's just not the term that they use. But yes, I appealed, he appealed and that it was never over.

Speaker 2:

The case itself. It was meant to be wrapped up in 60 days, I believe. At the time that was Virginia's mandate. Now it's 90 days, which I think that's good. Rushing it is never a good thing.

Speaker 2:

But seven months of my life and I was so incredibly alone, I was, you know, in exile of time. Everything was moving forward, everyone was moving forward and I was stuck in this one thing. I could not move on, just obsessing furiously over this case, leaving class to cry constantly whenever I got an email about it, constantly going in the Title IX office demanding something, some kind of answer, just hoping someone would understand, I think, what I was feeling and I really have no idea what happened to him after. I know. None of the appeals went through. They didn't on my end, which I did not know at the time. Now I know that I, now that I am more educated on the topic, is you know, to appeal you have to have some kind of grounds, like there had to have been, like some mishandling of evidence, no-transcript, exposing all these other women to somebody like this, to a predator like this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean it clearly doesn't balance out right. The punishment seems light for what you've explained and you mentioned a couple of terms and I want to kind of dig in a little bit to you know how shame can be used as a tool in these situations. And also you talked about the illusion of control. I believe is what you said. So tell us what you mean by those.

Speaker 2:

So I think a lot of survivors and I host a support group on Tuesdays that is a women's sexual assault support group. I just facilitate it and I asked one day you know who here has felt shame over what's happened to them? And every single person raised their hands. And you know one individual she was sharing and said it was easier for me to blame myself, to feel that shame, than to blame him. It was easier to say, if I don't dress like this, if I don't drink, if I don't go out, if I don't spend time with people like this, this will never happen again. And so she was shrinking her world, making it smaller and smaller, removing people, removing, you know, anything that she was doing, spending time with her friends, spending time with her family, going out, all the things that she had loved. She was eliminating for this illusion of safety, the illusion of control, this thing that we know to not be true. Even if you are ensconced fully in your home, you are not fully safe. And it is a choice, certainly it is deciding, because, yes, let's say you're fully locked in. You have 19 locks on your doors and windows. Odds are you're probably safer than the average woman, but it's that choice. You're not living a life. At that point.

Speaker 2:

And in that discussion of shame, we talked about how there's this dehumanization of the assailant, where so many people said, you know, I don't fully blame him because he is a monster and he can't doing these monstrous acts, he's just, he's evil and that is something that I've always, you know, had umbrage with. It's. You know these terms monster, evil, like these are. You know, this is a human being who has made terrible decisions and by giving them these you know these subhuman terms, by creating them in this, putting them in this it's almost mythical, like this Michael Myers-esque roleoll we are removing that notion of that idea of choice, we are removing responsibility from them, we are allowing them to get away with this and we're forgetting that they are people who made these decisions and it's it's only it's harmful.

Speaker 2:

I think it's something we see also very often too right In TV and movies, where someone is always evil. They're monsters.

Speaker 1:

Well, a lot of times you see that in fairy tales, which is what I started thinking of when you were saying evil, monster and monstrous. Yeah, this is not fiction. We are not in a storybook. This is really real life and these real life stories are what we talk about on this podcast most often and also what makes the self-advocacy work that you do and everything else all the work that we do at Genesis and Title IX process extremely important and it's evolving. Right, it's probably got a long way to go, but everything is evolving in this movement. You've been very open about your own struggles with mental illness and addiction. How did this impact your case when you filed the Title IX complaint?

Speaker 2:

Sure. So I was quite lucky in that when you file a Title IX complaint, as opposed to filing a police report or going through with a criminal case or a civil suit where they're allowed to really use anything against you With Title IX there are absolute limits on that. You are unable to have any kind of character assassination or at least I know that. Some things changed under Trump and DeVos but when I was going through the process that was something that was not allowed to be brought up. My past was not allowed to be brought up. I was asked to leave school for a year because of what I was struggling through and I was in treatment for a year before returning to school, and this was known by the dean that chose the sanctions. She was the one who personally asked me to leave and it felt like this odd conflict of interest, but I don't necessarily think that's worth going into. I really prefer describing things that are kind of within my control worth going into. I really prefer describing things that are kind of within my control. The night itself there was minor alcohol and some drugs involved and I will say there was not much emphasis on that and I think it's because I dismissed it quite quickly when it was brought up and this is just how I've always thought about it.

Speaker 2:

Sexual violence in the West is so, so, vastly different from so many other countries in the East. And when we think about the arguments that are used to defame women, to bring down women, to dismiss their stories you know what were you wearing, what were you drinking, why were you out at this time that falls apart. When we look at sexual violence in the UAE, let's say Mm-hmm. Arizona, I believe where you know, marital rape was legal up until 2001. Marital rape is still legal in a number of countries.

Speaker 2:

All these arguments we use to defame women are they fall apart when you look at sexual violence outside of this Western bubble and my experience with addiction. It's something that I like to speak about often, because when I say I am not the perfect victim and I think there's so many organizations, there's so many people saying there's no such thing you do not ever have to be perfect to come forward. There is still an expectation within that construct of the perfect, imperfect victim. You still have to follow this kind of series of steps. You still have to appear, you know, devastated, incredibly contrite, remorseful. God forbid, you know you go out the next day to a friend's birthday party because you should be home in the corner.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, shriveled up because of what someone did. Oh yeah, I have to be crying in the corner.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, I have to be on the bathroom floor sobbing. You know God like making a news. It's just. It's incredible that like what we decide when it comes to victims of sexual violence, and it's so unfortunate. The Amber Heard case is the one I come back to very often, where people did not like her and they made that choice based off that. You know, we had a case that checked off every single box when it came to domestic violence, what we look for in the signs of domestic violence, or you know what could become a situation like that, and yet we care so much about likability, about relatability, that that truly influences how we, whether we believe women, whether we believe their stories. And you know, I often say now there is no such thing anymore as a perfect victim, I realized, because the perfect victim is the one who stays silent. The perfect victim is the one who does not come forward. And when I hear about you know other organizations, other people talking about how you know that should not prevent you from coming forward or sharing your story, and that's something I truly agree, but it's not something that I'm ever seeing presented by someone who themselves will say well, I was addicted to opiates and this drastically affected part of my life. This drastically affected what I saw, what I experienced and everything after. And I, you know, marginalized communities are ones that you know, we are really, really focused on trying to help at WAI, these people who have not even had the chance of having a voice, and addiction in and of itself that's one of them. And I can say and this is purely anecdotal because unfortunately there are no statistics on this and I always, you know, I always grew up with this notion that, oh no, there's statistics on everything. You can Google absolutely anything and there will be a number there.

Speaker 2:

Intersection of sexual violence and, you know, addiction there is. You know, there are a lot of reports and articles and studies on substance misuse following sexual violence, but nothing tracking people in active addiction. And why Not? Necessarily because it's hard, because these are the people we do not care about, these are the people that we dismiss.

Speaker 2:

And so when I discuss it, I think you know it's really, it's anecdotal, it's what I have seen, and what I have seen is that 100% of women who are addicts have experienced sexual violence. And you see a situation where you know, let's say, you're robbed by your dealer, you're not going to the police and reporting that to them. Like, oh, I'm so sorry they stole my Goyard. Like you're not doing that, extrapolate that to sexual assaults. There is this almost this silent contract kind of that so many women sign, when I don't want to say entering into this lifestyle, because that implies that there's a huge level of choice, but when sliding into it, when this happens that we all know, that we all kind of agree to, we know how this works and with men, with predators, when there is vulnerability, they will always be lying in wait waiting to take advantage. And so, because we haven't seen statistics on this, we haven't seen any thorough studies on this, we said we're doing it ourselves and we're working on building a database, and you know we're working.

Speaker 1:

So let me ask you some questions real quick. So we can set that up for our listeners, because Women's Advocacy Initiative is your organization. Tell us what that is and then tell us about the studies that you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Sure, absolutely so. The Women's Advocacy Initiative. Really, to sum up our mission in one sentence it's to remove those barriers, eliminate those barriers that prevent victims of sexual violence from reporting their assailants. And I always say we have this kind of two-pronged approach. There is the direct services part of it where we built up our survivor support network A number of trauma-informed, vetted by us, attorneys, counselors and OB-GYNs, all of whom are, you know, there's cultural diversity with them. There's, you know, language diversity within them. That is not just important to our organization, it's deeply important to me, like I said, as the daughter of Iranian immigrants. And these individuals are people that you know when we say they're within our network. We have worked with them closely and any survivor who approaches us, who wants to pursue whether it's a Title IX complaint, file a police report, pursue a civil case, we will provide them with these services free of cost. And you know, I think that is it's such a monumental thing to me, to us, to be able to offer, because so many times I've spoken with survivors and I think there's this narrative that you know we are frail and we just want to sit and cry and do nothing, but it's more that we are drowning in confusion. There is no, no clear path. There really is no easy coordination with, let's say, you go get a rape kit done, then you're working with medical, and then let's say, you want to go through a civil suit or file a police report, pursue criminal charges, the prosecutor allows it. There is no coordination, there's no communication amongst any of these organizations and you're left really all alone, and that is the opposite of what we want to do.

Speaker 2:

We want to be as advocates for survivors who want to do this. We want to provide them with the resources, and survivors are the ones who have the power. Your assailant no longer has the power, it is you. You can do anything. You can file a police report, like I said, you can pursue a civil case, you can file a Title IX complaint if you're in school, but what you need are the resources and the community as well, and the education, and that is what we aim to provide when I say we have kind of a second prong as well, that's really the educational part of it the seminars, the fireside chats that we offer, and those are really really focused on reframing sexual violence, how we view sexual violence and, in doing so, hopefully eliminating the shame that comes with it, the shame and the victim blaming, and not at all to dismiss the direct services or survivor support network. I think that's crucial, but to me this is something that is fundamental on a deeper level to be able to restructure how we view this, how we view sexual violence, and that I think that is the barrier to coming forward.

Speaker 2:

If you are given the resources, the financial resources, psychological support, the community which is something we're also really trying to build out as communities of survivors, if you're given the correct information, then there is nothing really in your way.

Speaker 2:

And I think often we talk about this culture of silence around rape, around rape culture, but it's something that we perpetuate, it's something a lot of survivors and a lot of organizations perpetuate by saying you know, your trauma is truly your own, like you, absolutely don't owe anyone your story, you don't have to do anything, and that's the blanket response. But what if somebody does want to do something, as opposed to you know, just get counseling. What if somebody wants to do something? We're at a point where we almost it's almost radical to encourage that in someone. It's not say it's never to shame someone for not reporting, it's never to say, well, you better go report right now or else we won't help you. It's to arm you with every single thing you need to arm you with information, arm you with those resources, arm you with the education so you feel comfortable going forward, so you feel empowered going forward.

Speaker 1:

And as if that wasn't enough, as if that wasn't enough of all the things that you do, you also co-founded Untitled Nine. What is that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so that is actually. That's a company that my fiance and I co-founded and we, you know, through Untitled Nine, we aim to bring you know actual, accurate metrics and statistics on sexual violence, on the script, sex-based discrimination. We originally started with college campuses what we were thinking, but secondary schools are a massive, massive you know overlooked space as well, and you know it's a database and an algorithm that we're building and almost a I don't want to say compliance, but a method of determining you know what would be appropriate sanctions and what would be appropriate. You know prevention methods and I think prevention is such a huge thing that we talk about. It's something that I've seen discussions on over and over again and it always seems a bit weak in a sense. We are so careful, we are so scared. I think we take one step forward, we get an inch of progress and we're terrified we're going to lose it, so we do nothing. Consent is something. Consent education is something that I think we very successfully actually implemented in schools, in the workplace, but it's very, very basic consent. It's the type of consent you would teach five-year-olds. It doesn't dig any deeper than that surface level.

Speaker 2:

And when we think about statistics sorry to bring it back to Untitled Nine. Here's just an example. I suppose we say 2% to 8% of sexual assault allegations are considered false. That includes the police reports that are filed where the prosecutor has determined there is not enough evidence. We have no accurate method of reporting sexual assault. The DOJ statistics which RAINN, I know also uses we were on them recently to try to, I believe, determine just the rates of violent crime versus sexually based, gender based violent crime, and what they do with their stats is they include domestic violence as non-sexual violent crime. So the statistics we have there are also massively, massively incorrect, because when you are in an abusive relationship, when there is domestic violence occurring, you cannot consent to sex, you cannot consent. That is inherently assault and it's kind of that horror, in a way, of seeing the fact that we do not have accurate numbers on anything, and that's something that we aim to do with this program sex.

Speaker 1:

I had an expert on this show a couple of weeks ago and her stance is and I was a little taken back when she first said this but her stance was there is no such thing as non-consensual sex. There's consensual sex, which is sex, and then there's rape and those are the two statuses. There's like non-consensual sex doesn't really exist because it's a rape. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2:

I fully agree with that and that's something I say all the time, and I get that non-consensual sex is just the legal term that is meant to use, but I mean truly. You could use the word penetration, you can use any other word, but that is something that is. It's always been infuriating to me because even when it comes to Title IX complaints, rape is a word that is not allowed.

Speaker 1:

You say non-consensual sexual intercourse always. The challenge for me is that I mean I understand how hard it is to hear that word. It's awful to have to say the word rape, but it really does explain what happened. It's obvious what that means. Non-consensual sex is, you know, if it makes you feel better as a listener to like listen to the story and it says non-consensual sex, okay. But it's not the perfect description of what the reality is, or maybe how it's an oxymoron yeah.

Speaker 1:

Um, anyway, we digress. Uh, tell us the websites for WAI, uh, and maybe your social media or the best ways to get in touch about all of the work that you are doing.

Speaker 2:

So our website is wa initiativeorg, which I'm always kicking myself for using the word initiative. It is a rough one to type. It can be a lot. We often reserve for anybody who wants to reach out for more information. If you're on our website and you're a survivor looking for resources, that's going to be on our resources page and that email, if you'd prefer to just directly use that, is contact at wainitiativeorg. We've had a few people reach out to us, actually via our Instagram, which is just at Women's Advocacy Initiative, our Instagram, which is just at Women's Advocacy Initiative, and our LinkedIn, which is also Women's Advocacy Initiative. But yeah, no, we're available for contact in a number of ways and in our resources section on our site. If any survivor is in need of support, whether it comes to you know whether it's counseling, medical or legal reach out to to. You know, whether it's counseling medical or legal, reach out to us, fill out a form and you know we will get back to you within 24 hours and everything is completely confidential.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's lots of good resources on that website. I've been on the website. I really enjoyed looking through what you offer and what's available and I thoroughly enjoyed talking with you today and thank you for sharing your story with us.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much and thank you for giving me the chance to do so and to speak about. You know, the Women's Advocacy Initiative is the most important thing to me, just the closest thing to my heart, so I so appreciate being able to chat with you and to discuss it my pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Attention Spanish-speaking listeners. Listen to the end of this podcast for information on how to reach a Spanish-speaking representative of Genesis.

Speaker 3:

Atención hispanohablantes escucha este podcast hasta el final para recibir información de cómo comunicarse con el personal de Genesis en español.

Speaker 1:

If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, you can get help or give help at genesisshelterorg or by calling or texting our 24-7 crisis hotline team at 214-946-HELP 214-946-4357. Bilingual services at Genesis include text, phone call, clinical counseling, legal services, advocacy and more. Call or text us for more information. Donations to support women and children escaping domestic violence are always needed. Learn more at genesisshelterorg slash donate. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 3:

I'm reminding you always that ending domestic violence begins when we believe her, or by calling or sending a text message to our 24-hour crisis line at 214-946-4357. Genesis Bilingual Services include text messages, calls, counseling, legal services, advice and more. Call us or send us a text for more information. Llámenos o mándenos un text para más información. Siempre se necesitan donaciones para apoyar a las mujeres o a los niños escapando de la violencia doméstica. Aprende más a nuestra página de internet en genesisshelterorg. Barra inclinada donate. Gracias por unirse con nosotros. Recuerden que el terminar la violencia doméstica empieza cuando creemos a la víctima.