Genesis The Podcast

Understanding and Supporting Neurodiversity in Domestic Violence Survivors

• Genesis Women's Shelter & Support

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Discover the powerful ways in which neurodiversity intersects with domestic violence and learn how tailored support can make a difference. In this episode Jordyn Lawson, chief residential officer at Genesis, explores the unique challenges of neurodiversity in abusive environments. We'll uncover strategies for recognizing neurodivergent traits like developmental delays and learning issues in children and adults, emphasizing the importance of a supportive approach to care.

Together, we delve into the heart of what it means to support survivors with neurodiversity, focusing on the nuances of sensory sensitivities and the critical role of holistic care in addressing both parent and child needs. Jordyn reveals how Genesis incorporates evidence-based treatments to help survivors manage PTSD, viewing it as a form of neurodivergence that can be treated effectively. We also discuss how abusers exploit these vulnerabilities, further complicating the lives of those who are both neurodivergent and experiencing domestic violence.

By highlighting the significance of safety planning and the dangers of medical abuse, we aim to empower individuals on their journey to healing. Through personal mantras and community support, Genesis offers a lifeline to those feeling isolated and helpless. We emphasize the need for societal awareness and foster a perception shift to ensure that everyone knows they are not alone and that help is readily accessible. Join us for a conversation that promises insights, empathy, and actionable steps for fostering a supportive environment for all.

Speaker 1:

Neurodivergent is an emergent term that refers very generally to someone whose brain processes information in a way that is not typical of most individuals. When people who are neurodivergent experience domestic violence, specific considerations must be made regarding their care and treatment. Today we dive into the fascinating field of domestic violence services for our neurodivergent friends and how Genesis is making great strides in handling them with care. I'm Maria McMullin and this is Genesis the podcast. We welcome back Jordan Lawson to the podcast in her first but not last appearance in season four of the show as, as an expert with deep learning about clinical interventions for domestic abuse survivors, Jordan possesses more than a decade of experience serving women and children who have suffered trauma at the hands of an abusive partner or parent. Jordan is the chief residential officer of Genesis, managing all onsite housing services, as well as Genesis Advocacy Program, Child Care, Preschool and K-6 Education. Hi Jordan, Welcome back.

Speaker 2:

Thanks Marie, it's good to be here.

Speaker 1:

Since Genesis began the occupational therapy program several years ago, we've seen an influx of clients, more specifically children, who have exhibited neurodivergent traits, and these children are, to us, very special because they are witnesses of horrific crimes, crimes committed by a person that they most likely love, despite him hurting someone else who they love. In our case, this is truly when dad hurts mom, and research tells us that upwards of 50% of these children have themselves been abused by their parent, again typically dad, which compounds their trauma. Combine all of that with any types of alternative brain processing function and we have a recipe for a very special situation that plays out in very individual ways. So enter the term neurodivergent Now.

Speaker 1:

Neurodivergent is kind of a catch-all. It groups together people whose circumstances require perhaps a diagnosis and some unique approaches for services. And, jordan, you and I talk about that term very often when we're just talking about services at Genesis and clients and specific stories of people that we've worked with at the organization, of people that we've worked with at the organization. So I'd love to start there and get a working definition for this conversation of neurodivergent.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so neurodiversity, neurodivergent coming from the term neurodiversity, it's kind of a new term and it's one that not a lot of people are really sure exactly how to use. So I think it's important to understand that the umbrella term is neurodiversity and neurodiversity just speaks to the fact of honoring that, as humans, all of our brains sort of function differently. We think about things differently, we process information differently, we process and experience situations differently, have our different perspectives, right? So neurodiversity is just sort of this broad term that honors those differences. Right, when we get to neurodivergent, we're talking about somebody whose brain maybe is processing information differently, maybe on a level that could be diagnosed like something like ADHD or autism spectrum disorder. Like ADHD or autism spectrum disorder, maybe even a learning disability, it could be an anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, an OCD disorder, right?

Speaker 2:

Yes, when you get to these kind of diagnosable areas or another way to think about neurodivergent is a way in which the specific ways that this person's brain functions differently affects the brain more impactful, right?

Speaker 2:

So it has a greater impact on their functioning or in their ability to really be understood in social situations or really be as successful as they absolutely can be in different environments.

Speaker 2:

The truth is there's nothing wrong or bad about any of these, right? The great thing about the term neurodiversity is there's nothing wrong or bad about any of these, right. The great thing about the term neurodiversity is it's really promoting inclusivity and empathy and understanding for these differences, that they're not wrong, they're not bad differences, they're just different. And so, because these differences are impactful on functioning, sometimes they may need to be managed or to be supported differently. So, for example, if your child is exhibiting signs of developmental delays or not being on target with certain milestones, maybe learning disabilities, maybe it is explosive behavior or behavior that just feels different from the other kids that you've seen In my experience, a lot of moms sort of have this feeling that something might be there, and those would be the things that we would encourage you to bring to your counselor or to your physician or somebody and say, hey, this thing's happening, because it could be a sign of neurodivergent behavior.

Speaker 1:

I think you make some really important distinctions there. I appreciate the clarification around the terms neurodiversity, neurodivergent. What are the signs of being neurodivergent and how can domestic violence providers recognize them?

Speaker 2:

A lot of them. You know a lot of these are seen in childhood, but what we understand is that, because we are somewhat new to recognizing these things or talking about them, there's a lot of adults that are starting to notice that some of the struggles that they've had, or some of the unique things that they thought, oh, I was the only one who does this thing or thinks this way or notices it right, they're noticing the impact of these and so they're starting to bring it to their counselor. They're starting to bring it up in conversations with helpers, like a Genesis. So we have a lot of clients who will come in already reporting the divergence that they may be experiencing. So they may be reporting struggling with memory loss or struggling to sort of recall things, starting, you know, as a mom struggling to have a to-do list that's 17,000 things long and I keep forgetting to do this thing, or you know things like that that they'll really bring to us, right, of course. Then moms are bringing stuff for their kids too. They may be talking about learning disabilities that are being seen as their child is starting to learn in school, you know, trying to learn how to read or trying to learn how to do different things. They might be starting to see some struggle there, right? A lot of our moms will notice not just the behavior but the reaction to the struggle, and so a lot of our kiddos will become really dysregulated because of the way in which they're struggling or they're not being supported or they're not being helped in that moment, and so that might become an explosive sort of expression of that struggle. So I'm really frustrated because I know what I want, but you're not really understanding what I want and not giving me what I want. And so now I'm having this explosive sort of expression of that, and so a lot of moms will come talking about that, the explosions, the expressions of frustration or anger.

Speaker 2:

And it's through talking about what came before the explosion that we can start to identify, maybe a sensitivity to sensory input. So you were trying to put your kiddos clothes on and they had a full blown fit. Well, maybe it's a sensitivity to the texture of the clothes, right? Or there's just. You know, again, one of the things I think we're both trying to do this conversation is to be really broad, or there's just. You know, again, one of the things I think we're both trying to do this conversation is to be really broad, because there's just so many things that could be neurodivergent. Right, there's a lot of different examples, but what we are noticing at Genesis is moms coming to us sort of already having awareness that this might be something. And so then, in being able to really help moms talk it through, when did this start? What usually comes before? Do you notice anything in particular that sets your kid off every single time? Right Then, because moms are experts on their kids, they can really help us identify where that divergency might be.

Speaker 1:

So, when working with children, like we do at Genesis, why is knowing all of this really important?

Speaker 2:

Well, you know. So one of the things that we believe strongly at Genesis is that trauma-informed approach. Right, trauma-informed approach means being considerate and aware at all times. How has the situation or the things that have happened to a client impacted the client? And so it's this desire to be holistically understanding of a client not just what are their symptoms or, but also what's happened, what's their history, what's their likes, what their dislikes and so this very much goes in line with that, that if we're going to truly holistically understand the client in front of us we want to be aware of and open to.

Speaker 2:

If somebody who is neurodivergent is coming in for services, exactly how do they need us to support them, right? Do they have a sensitivity to sensory input and so they're going to be really affected by noise in the lobby? Well, we could arrange for them to come at a time and be able to come into their appointment where they have less time in the lobby, because we know that, right Is it that occupational therapy could help mom with and trying to help her kid get dressed when he keeps having these explosive things is just the straw that is breaking her back, right? So if we can support her holistically by having a counselor talk to her about the abuse and the trauma and also somebody help her with this issue with her kid, then it becomes this wraparound care truly.

Speaker 1:

How do all those types of things impact life at home when a family is experiencing domestic violence? Because I would think that could create some volatility. You know, the child won't brush their teeth or they're having a tantrum because of it and things start to spiral out of control and that's at times. It's a typical child behavior to have a tantrum. They're overloaded, they can't take anymore and they're just not brushing their teeth tonight. But I also know that that can set off an abuser.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think we've really seen it in sort of two different ways, if you will One being the client feeling like maybe the specific needs of her children are a barrier to her being able to leave, because she doesn't feel like she'll be able to support them fully by herself or she doesn't know what resources are out there to be able to go. So the idea of leaving and going to a safe place is that much more overwhelming because of the special needs that her children might have. And then I think on the other side, just like you were saying, it does become this sort of area of potential.

Speaker 2:

I want to be really careful here because of course we know that abuse is not somebody just getting angry or triggered and therefore choosing to hurt somebody, to scream at them or yell at them or hurt them, right. So an abuser may get frustrated over a kid's tantrum and may start screaming and yelling, but we really understand that the line in which it becomes abusive is not just because the abuser was frustrated, not just because the kid having a tantrum set them off, but it's because the abuser really believes that he has the right to dominate the house. He has the right to tell everybody in the house what to do and everybody should just jump to and get that done, whereas a child with neurodivergency may, who is neurodivergent may struggle to jump in line and do the thing that's being told, and so that it's that dominance that becomes the weapon against the client or the child.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I can see it. I mean, there are patterns of behavior that support exactly what you're saying, and children of all walks of life are gonna struggle staying in line when someone's got that level of control over them. And then, if you add in neurodiversity, it just compounds the issue.

Speaker 2:

Right, and we recognize, we actually recognize post-traumatic stress disorder as neurodivergent, right Like, because PTSD is a neurological impact on the brain because the amygdala, the kind of threat center of the brain, is being overworked, being overstimulated, it becomes more sensitive and therefore is living in this state of survival or protection, even in times like that, may not be directly threatening.

Speaker 2:

So, for example, somebody who, a kid, who lives in an abusive home, their brain is going to be on guard for threat all day long while they're in that home. Well, when they go to school, the idea that we would like is that when they go to school, they feel safe and so their brain calms down and it's okay. But the truth is, the more often that the brain is exposed to threat, the more likely it is to just live in this state of threat, and so they're living in that state while in school as well. And so PTSD that's what we call PTSD this state, this living in a state of you know, fight, flight or freeze right, experiencing these really intense reminders of the trauma, things like that. So PTSD can be an example of neurodivergency, because it means that it's impacting the way in which the brain is functioning differently, is now affecting the child's ability to function in school. They can't remember the math lesson because their brain is so focused on survival PTSD can be short-term right Because it's treatable.

Speaker 1:

It is treatable, yes, and correctable. It is correctable. So I could have PTSD coming into Genesis and be treated with the right treatment plan for me clinical counseling, emdr or other therapies and then no longer be neurodivergent at the end of it.

Speaker 2:

So the idea is that PTSD is an example, yes, of a treatable neurological impact of trauma, right, and so the idea is that the symptoms of PTSD are what's causing the neurodiversity and so then, when that is deescalated right or decreased, relieved right, if somebody gets the treatment and their symptoms decrease, then, yes, the ability for their brain to sort of function more typically becomes greater.

Speaker 2:

We know that, you know, at Genesis we use evidence-based treatments for PTSD, for example, and so we know that those are highly effective in reducing the symptoms.

Speaker 2:

Now, how effective those are for, you know, after she leaves Genesis and does she no longer experience any symptoms, or it's really kind of specific to the, the client, her situation, the trauma history that she's gone through.

Speaker 2:

But the idea, um, I think for for our conversation of PTSD as an example of experiencing neurodivergent or neurodivergency, is that it's that it is something that can be supported, that it's something that you can get support from, from a clinician that you can get that a client could build skills to sort of manage how that is.

Speaker 2:

And so if that's something that they learn and have to do and manage their reactions or their symptoms for a short bit of time, that's obviously beneficial. But if it's skills that they learn to manage these symptoms because they may continue for a long term, then what we really appreciate about that is the idea that, even when they're no longer coming to Genesis on a weekly basis, we've been able to help them with those skills to be able to carry forward. That would benefit them in being able to recognize what their needs are in certain types of situations where neurodivergency might be a thing for them. Right, they know when these might be a time for them. They know what skills they could use or coping strategies they might have to take care of themselves at those times, and so they can sort of independently and in an empowered way, right, take care of themselves on whatever level they might be experiencing these symptoms or these kind of different things.

Speaker 1:

Just a few minutes ago in our conversation, you mentioned occupational therapy, and Genesis is one of the only domestic violence agencies in the nation that offers occupational therapy for domestic violence survivors. How does OT or occupational therapy help both kids and adults who are survivors and neurodivergent?

Speaker 2:

So the you know, in all transparency, I am a licensed professional counselor and so I got into this field to do counseling and I was actually in this work for several years before I really I don't even want to admit how long I'd been doing this work before I really learned what occupational therapy is, and when I learned it I just became so aware of how well it partnered with what I was doing with my clients. But it's like the next step of what I wasn't able to do, and what I mean by that is, in a counseling appointment, my clients gain insight and awareness, and so they become. They might become more, um, like we were talking about, more aware of what their symptoms are, their diversity is, and they might become more aware into the moments that they need skills, um, but occupational therapy is the one, the, the, the therapist, who can really come in and help them develop those skills, help them practice those skills, really get into the very real life. We have seen sort of an uptick in clients, especially kid clients, who come in with an ADHD diagnosis or an autism diagnosis and then noticing some of the struggles that they might be having here or there. One of the cool stories that we have is a little girl who is struggling to brush her teeth. That we have is a little girl who is struggling to brush her teeth, and so mom would come into parent consults with the child therapist and talk about this battle of trying to get her child to brush her teeth. And so the child therapist is really trying to help mom with empathy and really trying to help mom stay in a really calm place to address the behavior in the moment.

Speaker 2:

But then they refer to occupational therapy and it's really the occupational therapist that was able to assess and recognize that there was a sensitivity to the texture or the sensation of the bristles on the child's teeth.

Speaker 2:

Because of the neurodivergent that she had, it really became a trigger. The feeling, just the sensation of the toothbrush on her teeth was a trigger that kind of led to this. And so the occupational therapist was not only able to give mom that information, which just sort of helps obviously to understand what's going on in that moment, but then they really start practicing on finding different kinds of toothbrushes that might be available or helping the kid. You know, helping the kid understand what's going on in that moment and just helping the child understand. This is why this feels this way to you and in understanding that it sort of even decreased the reaction from the child because they knew what this was. They knew it wasn't a threat, for example, they knew it wasn't that I'm getting hurt for real. It just doesn't feel good to me, right. And then started practicing the behavior over and over, and so again the occupational therapist sort of becomes the one, especially at Genesis, where we can get a lot more practice on developing the skill or developing the new technique to support the client.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a great example because it's something so specific and it also illustrates how personal this is, how very individualized these, just these little tiny things can be that can affect a really big part of our lives. And in this case it's not just about brushing your teeth and oral health and that kind of stuff. It was kind of diminishing the relationship between the parent and the child, exactly. And then there's another type of intervention for that right. Would that help? Would it help to bring them closer together, to use attachment therapy?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Right, and I think what you're saying there and what we're really proud of at Genesis is the ability to do both at the same time right, in one place In one place, right, and so sometimes on the same day, most of do both at the same time, right.

Speaker 2:

In one place In one place, right, and so sometimes on the same day, most of the time on the same day, we go from one or the other, or the OT and the counselor can sit in the session together, right, right. And so it really is this wraparound care of saying, okay, here's the whole issue, here's the whole understanding of what's going on and the whole impact that it's having on the mother, on the child, on their relationship, on the dynamics in the house, on things like this right and being able to do all of it together just becomes the most effective way to quickly help them change something for the better and just feel better, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1:

And it sounds like a process or a journey of discovery in a lot of ways, because you're learning things about yourself, You're learning things about your child and about your relationship, and there are also there are good things to discover. There are challenging things to discover and there are ways to work through anything that's problematic at. Genesis. Let's talk about safety planning. How is that important or different for people who are neurodivergent?

Speaker 2:

So you know again, I always think it's important for people to understand that safety planning in and of itself is meant to be customized to the client that's in front of you, right. So to safety plan means to find out what the person is already doing to keep themselves safe and then to potentially make some suggestions here or there to help them increase that safety or that awareness of things that they could do Right, and so that just adds very easily to what you and I've been saying is all we're adding in is understanding this person holistically, so not just the abuse that they're experiencing, but how do they experience the abuse, what exact tactics are being used? So, for example, if we have a client who has is neurodivergent let's say, an example of that may be somebody, an adult, with ADHD, and maybe this is a person who has some struggle remembering appointments or remembering things, or some disorganization in their home or something like that Right, right, things or some disorganization in their home or something like that right Right. This could be something that the abuser uses against the client, constantly telling her that she's crazy or that she's not responsible or that she's not good enough. So her neurodivergency can actually become the tactic in which he's using against her.

Speaker 2:

So in safety planning we could also in me knowing that these are the types of things specifically that he's saying to her or that he's using against her. Then I can sort of provide education about those things. I can help her with ways to take care of herself in those moments. Those might be specific things like if you're having a hard time remembering where your keys are and you frequently need to leave that, or at any point you wanna be able to leave the house quickly, let's have a designated place where your keys are. Let's have a. Let's get you a backup key that we could hide somewhere so that if you need to leave, right, and that just always lives in this place. So we're able to kind of consider some of these things.

Speaker 2:

But we're also able to do what we call emotional safety planning, and emotional safety planning is the kind of how do I take care of myself emotionally in this very unsafe environment? So when he's saying these things about her and he's pointing to the fact that she did actually miss this appointment and forget about this thing, right, how do we help her sort of? Maybe have a mantra in her head or have my voice in her head talking to her, or the education that I've given her, that she can sort of tell herself, which is, yes, this is a symptom of ADHD and she has a neurodivergent experience here, but it doesn't mean she's crazy, it doesn't mean she's bad, it doesn't mean she's irresponsible, right, and so it can, kind of. The goal is to sort of counteract the abuse that she's experiencing in that moment right.

Speaker 2:

Whenever we talk about safety, I think it's important that we always say that safety planning is not meant to make the abuser stop being abusive, because she can't do that. She can't make him stop being abusive, right, but what it is is how can we increase her safety? And so that's physical, but like we're talking about increase her emotional safety as well and understanding who she is as a human and how she experiences things, that she's not perfect, that we all have flaws. We all have things that we're good at and things that are areas of growth, right, or limitations, or we're not supposed to say weakness, right, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

I have many areas of growth, we can do a whole podcast online.

Speaker 2:

So it is a way to help her emotionally safety plan or have a plan in place to take care of herself emotionally through this too.

Speaker 1:

I hadn't really thought much about emotional safety planning before you just brought it up, and it makes so much sense because I can see how, just in that one example having a mantra in your head that reduces the voices telling you what an awful person you are when this individual is abusing you and telling you awful things about yourself you don't have to believe them Absolutely. There's alternatives there, and I would have to guess too that that type of tool will also reduce anxiety. If you have anxiety as a response to abusive behaviors, patterns, words coming at you, you know.

Speaker 2:

It can also help with the feelings of helplessness or hopelessness. It can reduce how hopeless I feel, so that you know I stay more connected to you. Know, maybe there's hope that things could be different. Right, I stay more connected to you. Know, maybe there's hope that things could be different, right, you know, abusers are just absolutely experts on picking up on something that has a kernel of truth to it and then gaslighting it to make it bigger than it actually is.

Speaker 2:

And again, the truth is, as humans none of us are perfect. All of us have things that we struggle in. If I have, you know, if I'm on the autism spectrum, or if I have ADHD, or if I have a learning disability, those just become more direct targets that he can use. That might be factually true, right, he can point to that and I can't really argue about it. I know it's true. And so it's women who have these things and he uses them as a verbal or emotional abuse tactic. They're more likely to believe them, or women in general are more likely to believe gaslighting when they're like. But it is true. There's this fact to it, right? But it's not all true. The fact that you have this diagnosis or this struggle right may be true, but it doesn't mean that you're crazy or you're bad, or you can't do the things that he says that you can't do, or you don't deserve to be safe, or that you are in any way creating the abuse that is happening to you.

Speaker 1:

I think what you're saying, Jordan, has a lot to do with how abusive partners or people pick up on vulnerabilities in their intended victims and then exploit them. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

You know, there's nothing wrong with a woman who is abused. She didn't ask for it, she didn't seek it out, she didn't pick an abusive person. But what we do know is that abusers actually do prey upon women, that they believe that they could, that they could take advantage of Right, and there's so many reasons to be able to do that. But a lot of times what they're looking for are areas of vulnerability, and we all have areas of vulnerability.

Speaker 2:

Again we all have things that we might struggle with.

Speaker 2:

But, for example, if I'm a single mom, an abuser might really pick up on that and come in and say that that's the area that he's going to come in like a like the helper who's going to help me with my kids.

Speaker 2:

Maybe he comes in financially to help them, maybe he's so nice to them and they love him, and so that's sort of the area that he took advantage of and really got me connected to him quickly and therefore more open for him to take advantage and prey upon. Right when we're talking about neurodiversity or mental health stuff especially, that's absolutely an area of vulnerability that is often taken advantage of or just abused to take control over somebody. So maybe somebody's neurodiversity is ADHD and again it's little symptoms here or there, right, but he can use them to put her down and make her feel bad about somebody, about themselves. Maybe it's a learning disability that's pretty severe or a mental health disorder that can have some pretty severe symptoms to them, and so this person really does need support and so that becomes areas that she's dependent upon him and then he can use that to take advantage and prey upon her and maintain control over her.

Speaker 1:

And it's just another type of medical abuse, right? Exactly what it is. So medical abuse, or more clearly, depriving someone of medical attention or treatment as a way to abuse that person, is often prevalent when children exhibit neurodivergent behaviors. So how does that form of medical abuse and the one you mentioned compound the experience of trauma and also contribute to child development?

Speaker 2:

Well, it's just the isolation. So isolation is probably one of the first experiences of domestic violence that a victim will go through, because you can't really control somebody until you cut off their ability to get help from other people. Right, and since control, power and control is the goal, it's one of the first things that they start to do. And so what we see medical abuse oftentimes says is isolating her from support from other agencies or practitioners or just spaces that would be able to provide her those skills or resources or ways of independently caring for herself. His goal is to have her dependent on him so he can maintain control, and so a lot of times he will cut off her ability to get that, that extra help or that extra resources, even for her children.

Speaker 2:

So we've been seeing it a lot here lately with the kids. To be honest with you, maria, we've had several. This conversation has kind of come up a couple of times between you and me because of some kiddos who have been within our shelter program and we've had several kids where the neurodivergent behavior is really obvious but they've never been diagnosed and they're at an age in which it really could have been diagnosed but mom was not able to take the child to the pediatrician to be seen. And so in in, because it be just to be clear, cause the abusive, because the abuser wouldn't allow it, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Um, there was, you know, uh, justifications about finances. There were reasons here and insurance issues and things. But really, when we talked to the mom, and we really get down to it, um, the abuser was just stopping her from getting the the, the child, seen by a pediatrician at all times, right, um, and so you know whether or not that's because the abuser was afraid that somebody would tell the pediatrician that the abuse was going on. And so there he, for he's trying to cut off that ability to outcry. Or the abuser literally didn't want the child to get support for the neurodivergent behavior. It doesn't necessarily matter. The point is, is that the kid is not being, their needs are not being met, so that the needs of the abuser could be met first and foremost.

Speaker 1:

Right, excellent point. That is exactly the point of bringing that up and giving everyone the perspective Now from mom's position in all of that. How can they recognize the signs of medical abuse by the abusive partner?

Speaker 2:

So really what we're talking about when we say medical abuse is that not allowing for your medical needs to be met, right, and so it could be again, the child's sick but I can't take them to the doctor, or the child needs the medicine but he won't give me the finances.

Speaker 2:

I don't have access to the finances to pay for the medicine, right. And so it could be that the child needs ongoing medical support, like appointments that are happening, and so maybe the abuser disrupts mom's ability to take the child to those appointments Last minute transportation, he takes the car and she can't get there. Or he refuses to watch the other kids, and so she can't take the child because the one kid she's got to watch the other kids and just disrupting the ability to go to these ongoing appointments and get the support and care that's needed. So, unfortunately, in sort of the medical world or the access to different services for neurodiversity, you have to have a formal diagnosis to then get the appointments right, and so what we see a lot of times is just dad or the abuser disrupting mom's ability to take the kid to be seen, to be diagnosed, and so therefore she's not being offered any supportive services until we can get that diagnosis, and so again, it's cutting off the treatment, it's cutting off the medicine, it's cutting off even just the diagnosis, to get started.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's so much I mean to your point. Like that definitely shrinks the world and the possibilities for this mom and her child uh to until she can get to a place like Genesis and really get some advocacy and other Well and in my experience with these moms, it leaves them feeling so lonely, like so lonely, and so isolated and helpless.

Speaker 2:

They're doing absolutely everything they can to support their child and help their child and so they very much feel like they're the only one who can help their child. So I can't go get a job, I got to stay with my kid. I can't be a way if I'm the only one who can care for my, my child, and so the ability to work on any other goals or to become independent in certain areas, it's just. It just all feels like really big barriers because she is so focused, understandably, on the needs of her child and meeting those needs. If we can get her connected to Genesis or somebody like Genesis and get her more supportive people around her, more helpers around her, then the hope is that she can recognize that she's not alone, that there are other people that can really help for her child, care for her child, love her child, and then it's less of a barrier that she feels too in being able to work on other things that she might want to work on.

Speaker 1:

Any resources or websites that moms could go to to get more information or support.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of good information online, right. I think it's really exciting the way the conversation about neurodiversity, neurodivergent brains, is. The information is really cool. So if you really just Google those, you can get some really big websites. The CDC actually has some really cool information that's really been vetted and really clear. Genesis has a blog that we've done and some OT information that we have on our website.

Speaker 2:

But you know, interesting enough, where I have found a lot of really cool information is on reels on TikTok, so you can actually go on TikTok and follow.

Speaker 2:

There's like ADHD TikTok and there's autism TikTok and there's there's a lot of really smart people talking about different things. That just really helps to develop awareness of what the different behaviors might look like or why they might be happening, and there's a lot of cool interventions or a lot of things you want to use. Now I'm talking about social media, so you got to be careful, right, because there's a lot of stuff. So I would really encourage people to not necessarily to really look at who they're watching on TikTok. Does this person have a background in education? That would really lend to them speaking on these things, but even just seeing, for example, reels of people who you know, for example, have ADHD. Talking about their struggles, a lot of people are feeling really connected and really heard and not so different in a bad way. They're experiencing a lot of understanding for themselves and for their child through these, so I think that's a really cool resource to use too.

Speaker 1:

It really can be, and it's accessible to many people. Millions, billions of people. How many people on YouTube? A lot of people on TikTok. There's a lot of videos too, and just one disclaimer on all of that is none of this is a diagnosis, right, right? Nothing you find on TikTok should ever be used as a diagnosis. Nothing that we talked about here today should be considered a means to a diagnosis. But if you're curious about neurodiversity and neurodivergent signs and symptoms, you can look it up, and you can always call Genesis if you experience domestic violence.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And again, I just think, if anything, if somebody were to hear one thing today, I would really hope that they would hear that there's nothing wrong with them it's not, you know, even if they're struggling in certain ways right. But it may be something that they need specific support in, somebody who can sit in front of them and help them work through their situation, specific to how they're experiencing their situation and how they what symptoms they have and get really, really clear in who they are. And again, that holistic word, right, I know that's what Genesis aims to do at all times, and so I think that's the encouragement there too, that there's not anything wrong with you, but you might need some additional or specific support and you deserve that.

Speaker 1:

Totally agree, and if I could have anyone here just one thing today, it would be that you're not alone and we're here for you. Jordan, good to be with you. Thanks for having me again, Maria. Thank you. Genesis Women's Shelter and Support exists to give women in abusive situations a way out. We are committed to our mission of providing safety, shelter and support for women and children who have experienced domestic violence, and to raise awareness regarding its cause, prevalence and impact. Join us in creating a societal shift on how people think about domestic violence. You can learn more at genesisshelterorg and when you follow us on social media on Facebook and Instagram at Genesis Women's Shelter, and on X at Genesis Shelter. The Genesis Helpline is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, by call or text at 214-946-HELP 214-946-4357.