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Soaring to Success: The Extraordinary Life of Lola Reid Allin

• Genesis Women's Shelter & Support

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In honor of Women's History Month this episode features the extraordinary journey of Lola Reid Allin from surviving domestic violence to becoming a groundbreaking female aviator with over 6,000 flight hours and numerous historical firsts in aviation. Lola shares how flying became both her passion and her path to freedom from an abusive marriage.
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When Lola Reid Allin's husband suggested they take flying lessons together, she never imagined aviation would become both her passion and her escape route from domestic abuse. This powerful conversation traces her remarkable journey from controlled spouse to groundbreaking female pilot—accumulating over 6,000 flight hours and becoming the first woman to hold numerous prestigious positions in aviation during an era when women were actively discouraged from such pursuits.

With unflinching honesty, Lola shares the reality of recognizing abuse patterns and finding the strength to leave. The tipping point? Her husband calling her flight instructors to announce her pilot certification before she could share her own accomplishment—a seemingly small but profoundly controlling action that crystalized her decision. 

Beyond her aviation achievements, Lola reveals her fascinating second chapter living in Mexico as a scuba dive master and immersing herself in Maya communities across Belize and Mexico. Her anthropological adventures living with indigenous families showcase her boundless curiosity and courage.

Most striking is Lola's revelation about writing her memoir "Highway to the Sky" after discovering in 2014 that despite progress, only about 5% of commercial pilots today are women—barely higher than during her active flying years. Her story illuminates how breaking free from controlling relationships and breaking through gender barriers require the same qualities: unwavering self-belief and the courage to venture into uncharted territory.

Speaker 1:

March is Women's History Month in the United States and today we highlight one of the amazing women who has not only made history but also survived domestic violence, accomplished aviator, scuba dive master, author and survivor. Lola Reed Allen is here to share her story of not just survival but also exceptional bravery in the face of abuse and sexism in a world that tried to deem her invisible. I'm Maria McMullin and this is Genesis, the podcast. Lola Reed Allen is a former airline transport pilot with more than 6,000 hours of flight time, a pilot examiner and the first female chief flight instructor at two flight schools. She's the first woman to fly the Twin Otter for a scheduled air service. She's the first woman to fly the Twin Otter for a scheduled air service. She is commemorated on the Wall of Women in Aviation History at the Bush Plain Museum in Salt, st Marie, and the first female female supervisor employed by De Havilland Flight Safety in Downsview, ontario.

Speaker 1:

In addition, she's a scuba dive master and an award-winning author and photographer whose work has appeared in many notable local, national and international publications, including National Post, globe and Mail, toronto Star, national Geographic, santa Fe Center for Photography and others. To promote the role of women in aviation and to encourage other females to consider aviation careers role of women in aviation. And to encourage other females to consider aviation careers. Lola is a speaker with the Northern Lights Aero Foundation and the Eastern Ontario 99's Education and Outreach Committee. In 2022, she and Robin Hadfield, the International 99's president, created the New Track Scholarship, an annual award for female pilots. She joins us today to discuss her memoir Highway to the Sky an Aviator's Journey. Lola, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

Maria, thank you so much for inviting me, and I'm delighted to be here.

Speaker 1:

I'm really excited to talk to you. There's so much to talk about. Hopefully we'll have enough time to get it all in. You are a survivor of domestic violence, and that is kind of how we were brought together for this conversation, but you're also a pilot and a scuba dive master, a world traveler, and now you are an author and probably so much more. So we have a lot to discuss, and I'd like to start with your decision to take flying lessons and pursue a pilot license. Tell us about that lessons and pursue a pilot license.

Speaker 2:

Tell us about that. It was something I'd always wanted to do, but being a little girl in the 1960s, I wasn't encouraged. Probably two different reasons my father, just because he wasn't terribly supportive. He didn't really want children, he didn't want to have either of my mother's pregnancies, but he also didn't want to terminate the pregnancies either. So there's a bit of a conundrum there. And so they were upright parents and did the right things, but he wasn't supportive, being very dismissive of women in general. And my mom wasn't supportive because she knew what was in store for me, I guess.

Speaker 2:

So in 1947, she was an educated woman, which was relatively uncommon in 1947. And when she got married in 1947, she was forced to quit her job. She was employed by the Canadian government, and the Canadian government at the time did obviously employ women, but not married women, who were supposed to be at home, where they belonged, looking after their husbands. And so she did. Ultimately she changed careers and she worked as a legal secretary, but I'm sure she knew what was coming. You know my desire to do something different, to be, you know, out there and doing something exciting, but she herself I can only presume she's been dead many decades now had a lot of pushback as well. So of course, when she was trying to dissuade me from all of this as a teenager, I misinterpreted it as you hate me, you don't love me, you don't support me, that kind of stuff. As an older person I realized she probably did have my back after all. As an older person I realized she probably did have my back after all.

Speaker 2:

But so I kind of gave up the dream. I got a job at the bank. I was doing reasonably well, I was a supervisor, it was in the computer department and my husband actually the bully who was emotionally abusive initially suggested we take up flying and I, of course, was pretty shocked, you know, like I don't think I can do that. And he said I've always wanted to do it, or words like that. So I thought, fine, okay, well, where will we learn to fly? Because that's a big thing. Maybe I want to fly, but where do I go to learn to fly? Well, he said I was out today. He was an inspector with the health of animals in the Canadian government and he said I found this little airport and I signed us up for flight lessons. It's like what.

Speaker 1:

Wow, so he had already signed you up for these flight lessons even before you. Just one, just one, okay.

Speaker 2:

An introductory flight you started. I mean, there are schools now, uh, where you enroll, and you enroll for your not the entirety of your aviation training, but enough to get you trained so that you can fly professionally. But no, he just booked us for the introductory flight and you know, he said, you know, if you don't like it, obviously we don't have to continue. It's not a pressure thing, but it would be fun, it would be something for us to do and sure enough, we would go to the airport and if he went flying, or when he went flying, I looked after our son, who was three, and then we'd flip-flop I'd go flying and he'd look after our son. So he was a good guy basically, just with some demons. Anyway, after maybe I'm going to say five hours, six hours, I realized how much I really loved it. Part of it scared me, but I really really loved it and I thought I'm definitely up for this challenge and I went solo, I got my private license and then it was just like no stopping me. I was sorry you took off.

Speaker 1:

I mean, things really took off. I literally I'm sorry for the pun, but it's true and in the book you go into a lot more detail about what the flying lessons were like, what the environment was like. Tell us a little bit about that too.

Speaker 2:

The environment was male. Now it wasn't toxic male. You know, I had some great instructors. I learned something from every one of them. I learned more from some of them, obviously, but everyone taught me something and the flight lessons were fun. They were difficult in the sense of you had to do like so much. If you don't do any of the studying, it's going to be much more difficult. So there was a lot of studying involved a lot of pre-flight preparation in terms of knowing how the aircraft worked, how the engine worked, knowing about air regulations, air navigation orders. There's a lot to learn, but none of it is outrageously difficult or beyond the scope of sort of the average person who's very determined to fly. Flying lessons were fun. Some were scary, but they were all fun. And the ones that were scary, that is, they would be the exercises, stalls, spins, spirals, simulated engine failures, which is called a forced approach. All of those have an element of. I mean they even sound a little dangerous, right?

Speaker 1:

They do. I'm really, I'm really terrified right now. Yeah, I would not be able to do this, but keep going, keep going.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, I just learned to master them and I just had so much fun and it was so empowering, so gratifying, so energizing, that it wasn't even really a conscious decision that, yes, I was going to continue flying. It was just I'm going to continue flying and at some point I'm going to quit my perfectly good job, as my parents said, and become a commercial pilot.

Speaker 1:

How long did it take you to make that decision?

Speaker 2:

Well, within a year.

Speaker 1:

Well, I mean maybe that's the wrong question. How long did it take you to make the decision and then execute it?

Speaker 2:

A year. So March 17th was my first flight and I guess slightly longer year. So March 17th was my first flight and I guess slightly longer. But then I quit my job in March of the following year, which would be 1980. And then I took an instructor rating and then I started working as an instructor June 1st, so my first lesson was March 17th. But I didn't fly. At first we thought, oh, you know, you can go flying every couple of weeks, which, by the way, is not a good way to learn a new skill. I mean, you do need to fly or whatever it is. Play guitar Practice practice, practice.

Speaker 2:

You have to learn it and then you have to learn enough of it and be proficient enough that you don't have to keep relearning every single time you sit down to play the guitar or get in an airplane to fly the airplane. So once we my husband and I realized that I think we started flying like two or three times a week, maybe in April and May, and then I did a very intensive training on our holidays up in Northern Ontario in Scottish country, and I just spent two weeks just finishing my private pilot license and that was great because you just you could remember what you did from the morning. Obviously right One would hope.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so it's fascinating and, like I said, in the book there's a lot more detail and I'm going to fast forward us a little bit to another topic that kind of gets ahead of ourselves, but then we'll work our way back, because taking flying lessons, changing careers a complete pivot. Now you were a banker, you are now a pilot. It's a huge change. But then, after your mother died, a lot changed for you again. Please tell us about that chapter of your life.

Speaker 2:

Well, it was surprising that she died. She hadn't been looking after herself, she was overweight, she didn't exercise, she was a smoker. So the heart attack itself wasn't a shock, but dying from the heart attack was astonishing considering, especially since she lived for three days following the heart attack was astonishing considering, especially since she lived for three days following the heart attack. So we thought, oh, this is great, it's going to be a nice wake up call and in fact it was just devastating. And what was we always expect? Our parents would die before us.

Speaker 2:

However, my grandmother was now, who was now a widow, who had been a widow for a couple of years, had now lost her only child. So she was a basket case, as you can imagine. She was elderly, she was in her 80s, late 80s. So because my grandparents had been instrumental in raising me when I was a little girl, and then after school, like preschool, and then after school, as I mentioned, my mom worked full time, my dad worked full time and even though they were wonderful parents, my grandparents took over very willingly. They had wanted more than one child my mother but couldn't have them. So they were delighted with grandchildren and my parents, as I mentioned, were good parents. They did all the right things, you know right school, good clothes, holidays, airplane rides. That was pretty cool. But they were more reserved and perhaps like the sort of the British nanny or au pair system. They were kind but not really loving.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, my grandparents were my saving grace and so I felt kind of obliged and I cared for my grandmother. So I stuck around for a couple of years and then I by that time I had a scuba dive license, an open water certificate. But I went with my girlfriend in the scuba dive club to Cozumel, mexico, and halfway through the week I turned to my best friend and I said that's it, I am moving here. And she said, oh, wouldn't that be wonderful? And I went no, no, seriously, I'm moving here.

Speaker 2:

And by this time my grandmother was in a nursing home. She'd had a stroke and was still very cognizant, but needed 24-7 care, so she was in a nursing home. I no longer felt that I needed to be there all the time. It worked out really well, and so nine months later I had sold my house. I moved to Mexico. I was now a scuba dive master, and I worked as a scuba dive master and managed a scuba dive shop.

Speaker 1:

That's incredible. It's such a 180 from you know, working in a bank and being, like you know, settled, but content and not really living your dream Right. But you're leaving out one of the better parts, and that is your experience with Maya family. So tell us about a little bit about that, ah.

Speaker 2:

So I had wanted to move to Mexico because I mean, it's beautiful If anyone who's been there. It's stunning. It's beautiful If anyone who's been there. It's stunning, it's beautiful. I could be scuba diving every day. The guys I worked with were awesome. They were all with one exception. They were all Yucatan Mayan, which refers to their place of origin, the Yucatan Peninsula, but also their language.

Speaker 2:

And I had studied anthropology in university, not so much the Maya but anthropology. And one course in particular left a lasting impression and it was of a woman, our professor, dorothy Counts, who had lived in the Pacific, and I took the course just because I needed the credit, didn't think it was going to be that interesting. It turned out to be the best course ever because she had lived there, he had experiential knowledge, she didn't have to look it up in a book and she would show us these great images, these great slides that she'd taken on the three or four islands that she'd actually lived on, much like Margaret Mead, and coming of age in Samoa. So it's like, wow, this is really amazing. And again, at the time I didn't really think, oh, I'm going to move to Mexico and I'm going to study the Maya and I'm going to take photos and write a book about them, although while I was there I did write several articles for niche publications and for the Mexican National Tourism Board about the Maya and the Maya lands.

Speaker 2:

But very soon I would adjust my schedule so that I could go and stay with the Maya in other areas, so specifically Belize the Mopan Maya in southwestern Belize and then also the Lacandon Maya in the Chiapas Highlands of Mexico, and I actually live in their homes. So it's not just as if I'm living in the village, but I and you know I go and join them for lunch or something, but no, I'm there 24-7, which is a bit difficult because maybe I'm sure it's difficult for them to having a stranger in their house. But it's possibly a bit less difficult because I'm adjusting to their schedule, their food, their time frames and they're already used to having anywhere from six to eight children. So you know, eight to ten people in a house and it's a very small one-room house, usually with a divider, but basically one room with a divider. So it's very difficult, but you really get the feel of what it's like to live in a rural area in a thatched roof.

Speaker 1:

I would think so. Yeah, I would think so. Yeah, I would think so. I mean, that's incredible. I'm curious. How does one just decide that they are going to live in the house with another family in this part of the world, and then it happens. What is that process?

Speaker 2:

Well, it was sort of. I met some people. In one case I happened to pick a bed and breakfast, that was. It looked, you know, pretty cute. It was in the central area of southwestern Belize and, as it turned out, I couldn't have picked a better person to introduce me to people in that area. Yes, it was a B&B, but it was owned by the local store owner, who had adjacent property, and his wife who was they had been for the last 30 years the school principal, vice principal, sorry at one of the local schools. So she knew everyone and everyone knew her. So you basically just had to say hi, I'm a friend of Teacher Marie, and doors opened and then I, you know, I met him, and if she didn't know somebody, she knew someone who did.

Speaker 2:

And in one case, you know, I just hopped on the bus and went to a village called San Pedro, colombia, and knocked on the store door, the store owner's door, and introduced myself and said able to stay here, for a fee, obviously, and sure, a little bit. A lot more adventurous was in Mexico, when I stayed in San Cristobal de las Casas, and I deliberately chose a B&B, in essence, but a small boutique hotel that I knew, the Lacan Don Maya would stay at occasionally. And sure enough, on day three, one of the two of the Lacan Don Maya would stay at occasionally. And sure enough, on day three, one of the two of the Lacan Don Maya. I was having supper with them in a very what do you call it? A family style long bench table and I mentioned my interest in going to their village and he said oh sure, just tell them, I sent you.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, it's all like so amazing. There's so much of your story I mean, there's a lot of challenge, right, and there's a lot of struggle and things happen but so much of your story just feels to me like the stars aligned at times for you to live the life that you were meant to live. Now I have been reading your book Highway to the Sky An Aviator's Journey, which was released in September 2024. And, like I said, there's way too much for me to mention. So many things have happened and it's really fantastic, fantastically interesting story of your life. But I'm just going to drop a pin and talk about your childhood for a minute. We'll go back to like your grandfather, your grandmother and some of the experiences you had, because in a lot of ways when I was reading it it felt like you almost seem born to do all of these incredible things. Would you agree with that? I don't know.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I do know that my grandfather encouraged me to do outdoorsy type things. We did. My parents took us camping as well, but my grandparents would take us tenting and it was a little bit more rustic, right, and they would take us me. Actually we did epic trips across North America, to the East Coast in northern United States and we did tenting, and what they wanted to do was they were retired. He was retired from the post office and had taken up the avocation of genealogy, so they would travel around doing research on specific families, would travel around doing research on specific families. So and they combined it with, you know, teaching me various things history, geography, you know the things you do with little kids, education books.

Speaker 2:

And when my sister came along seven years later, nearly eight years later, it was even more polarized. She clearly wanted to spend time with grandmother inside cooking and baking, and I didn't really want to do that at all. I was always out with my grandfather and it's hard to say what comes first, but as a child I also watched reruns of Sky King and Sea Hunt and it's kind of ironic really that. I mean, was I drawn to them because I liked those things, or did I become a scuba diver and a pilot because I watched Sky King and Sea Hunt.

Speaker 1:

I mean those are all Hard to say, right? Yeah, hard to say.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, you know, it's certainly. Obviously I was influenced, I'm sure, by the media. Sky King is about a man named Skyler King who flies a twin engine airplane in Arizona and I recently watched one of them on YouTube and it's cute, I mean, it's kind of hokey. It was from the 1950s, 1960s, black and white, obviously, and it was really exciting. I mean, as a child it was incredibly exciting and for the time period obviously too.

Speaker 2:

But he had a niece, penny, who also flew with him, but perhaps the role wasn't perhaps as empowering as it could be. She would take control if he was incapacitated or if he asked her to take control because he needed to do something during the flight. Um, like in the episode I watched, they were throwing big boulders out of the plane onto a boat down below. Now I really think that would have hit the wing, since it was a low wing aircraft. But anyway, that's what the that's what the plot was boulders out the window, hey, um, but, and sea hunt is um, lloyd bridges, who's the dad of jeff bridges and beau bridges, and again, you know very old technology, scuba diving. But it was fabulously exciting as a child I mean, all the challenges he had and so, funny thing, I grew up to do both those things.

Speaker 1:

It's remarkable really, and, as I mentioned along the way, there were a lot of other things, and the thing that really brought us together and introduced me to you and your book is the fact that you are a survivor of domestic violence. You've been on this amazing journey of your life and there have been these challenges. In the book, you wrote about the anger and control by your husband ex-husband, including how alcohol addiction played a role in the relationship, as well as his violent physical abuse after your separation. Will you tell us what happened to you and how you managed to break away from his power and control tactics and leave this relationship?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I always had a really good sense of self-worth, which is very important. I knew that I didn't want to be bullied, but I also knew that he had no right to bully me and initially I suppose I let him do it a little bit. You know, you think you know. Maybe he's had a bad day. He's just crabby and miserable and I was in love with him. He was my husband, so I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I would say, you know, just because you've had a bad day, this is not my fault, let's talk about it. And I don't like the way you're treating me, but that didn't seem to work. That didn't change his behavior toward me and I certainly have never liked being bossed around and who does right. But I think it was when I really got to know his parents who, of course, for the first few times that we met and you know, of course, at the wedding and then afterwards for the first year, maybe they put on their best face and she was very nice. His mother, yeah, his mom, yes, my mother-in-law was just really a shell of what I imagine she had been or what she could have been or and have been, but he was a real bully and he would boss her around and demand things and you know it was his house and he would buy whatever he wanted. He had an airplane, he would go flying. He would fly up, uh, up to the arctic. I mean again, he was a fascinating person but there wasn't enough money for for nies, there wasn't enough money to buy the things she wanted, and that type of deprivation wasn't something my husband even tried. I had a job, we had two cars. He never discouraged me from meeting friends, going out Well, reasonably, obviously, but going out with friends taking night courses. We had a joint bank account but we had separate bank accounts. So he was a very reasonable person that way. So he was a little bit different than some people who are sort of the ultimate in power and control and they restrict the movement of their spouse to the point where she no longer has any autonomy, no friends, no ability to go out, and her life is just him, him, him.

Speaker 2:

That wasn't the case with me, but it was when I realized that he, my husband, was emulating the learned behaviors that he'd seen his father act out towards his mother. So my mother, my father-in-law and my mother-in-law, and I realized that Paul was doing those and it would probably escalate. And although it hadn't impacted our three-year, I didn't believe it to have impacted our three-year-old son. At that point I knew it would and I thought I don't want to live this way and I don't want my son to internalize those behaviors. And at that point I knew I had to leave, although I had not yet decided. Sort of when, about a year before I left him, we did move, we relocated, he got a new job, still with the government, but a new job in a different city, and I thought then that I should not be moving. But I decided that perhaps I was being unfair in the sense of he would now have a new job. It was an increase, it was a promotion. He would have a new job, new friends, new area. Maybe things would be different, and they were initially.

Speaker 2:

But then he kind of quickly slipped back into you know, too much drinking and verbally abusive and a couple backhands. One backhand is too many. But again, I think most of us, if we love our partner, are willing to or are so hopeful that that's a one off and it'll never happen again. And I think we tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, and that's a good thing. But at what point do we stop? At what point is hitting too much? One hit is too much. But it's a little bit more difficult with verbal abuse and belittling Although again, he was mostly just a nasty, miserable drunk who said nasty things. But that's not pleasant to live with either and I consider that abuse. Anybody that talks over their I'm going to say wife in this case but talks over their partner, or talks in a group of people, keeps interrupting, talks over them, belittles them, says disparaging things to them and about them all of that is abuse says disparaging things to them and about them.

Speaker 1:

All of that is abuse, absolutely, and I'm very sorry you endured all of that, and then you did decide, though, eventually, that you were going to leave the marriage.

Speaker 2:

I did and um, only, I think only people who study abuse or have been in abuse would understand how important this is. Is this next what the actual impetus was? Because when I wrote about it at first, and even when I had a developmental editor, she said so what's the big problem with that? So he made a phone call but for someone who was really feeling under the thumb of power and control, I had it. So what Paul had done was he had, because we, because we had, or I had, changed flight schools.

Speaker 2:

I got licensed at the second flight school but I was still really in tune with my instructors at the first flight school and I couldn't wait to tell them that I passed my private pilot flight test. I was so excited I couldn't wait. But, um, on the first day back of work I was busy until I don't know 11 o'clock noon-ish. Whenever I really had time as a supervisor. I had to wait until I could make a phone call and by the time I did, the chief flying instructor said oh, congratulations, so happy for you and Paul.

Speaker 2:

Even before I'd left the home at morning I was in the shower. He called them to tell them I had passed my flight test and I thought that is it. So again, that may not seem like abuse, but it is. It's a very specific control that you're not telling them your news. I'm going to tell your instructors your news because you belong to me when I can tell them, and I thought that's it. So during that day at work I was so angry I guess I should have maybe called the flight school earlier, but I'd certainly made time now to find an apartment to live in, and apartments were easy to find there where I was in a bigger city, so I didn't leave right away. It took three weeks for the department to be ready, but I went home and told him that I was leaving.

Speaker 1:

That's remarkable. It takes a remarkable amount of courage and planning. You had already been thinking about doing this.

Speaker 2:

I've had. That's right, I had. But it's like writing. I mean, you don't just think, oh, I think I'm going to write a book, and then you sit down and write 344 pages. It just doesn't happen that way. You know, I've been thinking about it, Some of the stories I'd been mulling over in my mind for years not stories, but the, the events you know and thinking about it, and and I I won't say it was cathartic, because I never blamed anybody, with one exception of, that is, of the people with whom I worked, because they too were part of the environment.

Speaker 2:

They were products of the environment, Just like my husband. My ex-husband was raised to believe that's the way you treated women, right, that's what he saw. He saw it at the particular church they went to. Women were second class, Women sat separately. Women were told what to do. His mother was told what to do at home. That's how women were treated. So it wasn't that surprising that so many people were shocked that I was flying an airplane. The guys I worked with they'd never seen a female pilot before either, so it was very new. And most of the in their experience, the women they knew, whether personally or observationally, the women they dated women. They married a woman. They married. They were not professional women, they were lovely people, but they worked in the home or had jobs. And by jobs I mean to say they worked not so much for personal satisfaction but to bring money into the home, and again, that's laudable. But it is different to have a career rather than just I'm going to go get a job at the local grocery store to bring in more money.

Speaker 1:

It's a very different, very different perception of yeah, and I can see that now flying and maybe even scuba diving are very male dominated places to have a hobby or even focus your career places to have a hobby or even focus your career and I would think those could also have been abusive environments or, at a minimum, very sexist places for you. What was that like and how did you manage to thrive in those environments?

Speaker 2:

Well, you're certainly right, they're both very male dominated. There are some female scuba dive instructors and scuba dive masters, but again, it's very male dominated. I didn't have any issues there with, there were no problems whatsoever. I was very well respected and integrated beautifully and I really enjoyed the guys who were super helpful and taught me how to speak Spanish, and with an excellent accent. So I'm forever grateful to them.

Speaker 2:

Not so much in aviation. Initially, when I was taking flight lessons, I was welcomed, certainly by the schools and by the instructors, because the aviation is a fairly low profit margin, so they try to welcome students. It was only when I, as my grandfather put but immediately apologized, as my grandfather said, it was only when I started taking jobs from men that there was a bit of pushback, not from everybody. And there was a bit of pushback not from everybody. I had support groups in the sense of allies at every company that I worked with or worked at the guys. Most of the guys were great. Some were ambivalent. Mostly I won them over, but there were a couple in both in two different places, that were just did not think that women had a place in aviation as a pilot at any rate. So that was difficult. How did I succeed? I just kept getting more ratings and doing flight tests and getting you know. You know I got to the top of the instructor platform, or whatever you want to call it. So you start as a class four and then you go to class three, class two, class one, so as a class one instructor, there weren't and aren't that many, so you're certainly respected that way.

Speaker 2:

I had about 6,000 hours. I had taken the same flight tests and exams that the guys did. So after a while they, you know, they sort of have to believe that you're qualified. But I guess I believed in myself. I just did my job. That's really it, you know. And I thought you know, you know they'll get used to it. Even the chief pilot said, oh, don't worry about them, that you know they'll get over it, they'll get used to it.

Speaker 2:

And I think that you know, as time went on and I flew with, you know, a variety of captains and first officers that people did get more comfortable was the only female. So it wasn't like there was another woman that came on board that we would have. I would have another female ally. It was always me and all these guys. There were other female commercial pilots, obviously, but we were so far apart and none of them were at the same airport that I was and they were hundreds of miles away. So occasionally I did hear them on the radio. Occasionally we ran into each other on the ramp.

Speaker 2:

But you know, it's hard. It certainly in the 80s without, and 90s without internet and Zoom, it was hard to form a friendship really with someone that lived 800 miles or so from you. So it was a pretty lonely, lonely occupation. But I kept myself busy. I worked, I taught part-time at the local flying school, I attended university via correspondence, and then I had our son and we shared joint custody. We shared joint custody for most of his well, all of his, all of his young life. So so it was busy. I just, I just did my job and kept on. It didn't feel like I was doing anything special. That was maybe the funniest thing. It was just like you know what? I'm? Just here, I'm doing my job. What is the problem, right?

Speaker 1:

Right, right, no problem. I say no problem. What made you decide to write your memoir about these experiences?

Speaker 2:

Well, when I realized that some of those obviously not the same exact experiences, but that that attitude that women didn't belong in aviation, and there was still pushbacks from other pilots male pilots, from the industry in some cases, and from passengers who were reluctant to believe that women were capable of flying airplanes and I was absolutely astonished because I actually it happened in 2014. And I saw an article. My husband drew it to my attention. It was in Canada and and WestJet is one of our major carriers in Western Canada and one of the pilots a female. The captain received this note on WestJet you know the little napkins that they have and I paraphrased that. It said something like Dear Captain, westjet, women have no place in a cockpit. We are short mothers and wives. The next time WestJet has a fair lady at the helm, please let me know so I can take another flight. And to say that that was astonishing was an understatement. I was galvanized.

Speaker 2:

I simply had absolutely no idea that that attitude still prevailed. I was focusing now on doing my research with the Maya and to Belize, guatemala and Mexico. It was often better, since there were very few was only only one non-stop flight from Toronto to Cancun, whereas it was easier for me to take the American hub system. You know, atlanta, houston, miami and I'd always see female pilots walking through the the terminals and I was so excited and I was so happy for them. Yeah, maybe a little jealous too, but I was so happy for them and I thought there's a lot more female pilots. This is great, you know. Obviously the attitude has so happy for them. Yeah, I'd be a little jealous too, but I was so happy for them and I thought there's a lot more female pilots. This is great, you know. Obviously the attitude is changing. There they are, they're walking with the captain or with the other, the flight crew. This is great.

Speaker 2:

What I didn't realize until I started doing research and started reaching out to two major support groups for female pilots Women in Aviation International and the 99's International Organization of Women Pilots I didn't realize that, yes, there are a lot more female pilots who are flying commercially.

Speaker 2:

So I was right, but I was wrong in the sense of percentage-wise. It's still at about 5%. That is, only about 5% of commercial pilots are female and the number is slightly more than it was in the 80s and 90s, but by half a percent. So at that point I thought, wow, this is amazing. I'm going to write my story and talk about the things that happened to me so that I can talk about these things, that I have a book that people can read about and, like you, maria, we can sit here and we can talk about these issues that are still ongoing and, of course, with all the furor now that's going on after the crash in Toronto last week and the alleged but apparently incorrect assumption that the flight crew were not qualified, but I guess there's been a lot of pushback, a lot of negative reaction to women who are flying now for the major airlines, so that's really unfortunate.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it is very unfortunate, to say the least, and typically when there is a woman in the cockpit, the fingers start pointing to her. We've seen that in the past few weeks here, also in the United States, so that's not lost on me or anyone else that there's a lot of sexism that still exists, and this is just one place where it seems to be very prevalent. So before I let you go, lola, I'm curious what's next for you. Do you have another adventure that you're planning?

Speaker 2:

Well, maybe not so much an adventure, but I'm going to Denver next month for the Women in Aviation International Convention and I'm going to be there with a group called the Literary Aviatrix, and I'll be there with 34 other female authors Most of us are also pilots or we're writing about women in aviation and I'm working on my next book, which is sort of what happened to Lola after aviation, which is moving to Mexico and my time living with the three different Maya groups. So that's what's next up.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's a lot Okay, so I can't wait for the next book. I can't wait to talk to you again sometime in the future. Tell us your website so people can learn more.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's lolareadallencom and you can reach out to me directly through the website or just directly at lolareidallencom and the book is available widely from Simon Schuster. You can order from the publisher, you could order from amazoncom Back on Amazon's Top 100 again. I was so excited, Outstanding, it was there a couple weeks ago. Yeah, it was there a couple weeks ago Top 100 in Aviation and Nautical Biography and it's back up again today. So I was really pretty excited about that. So you can get it from Amazon. I actually had an email the other day from a reader in Finland. A guy who'd heard me on another podcast bought the book and couldn't wait to tell me how much he enjoyed it.

Speaker 1:

Outstanding Lola, thank you so much for talking with me today.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you, I've had a great time.

Speaker 1:

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