Genesis The Podcast

Identifying Patterns of Abuse: A Situational Awareness Approach

• Genesis Women's Shelter & Support

Share episode

What warning signs did we all miss? In the wake of Gabby Petito's tragic murder by her fiancé Brian Laundrie, situational awareness expert Kelly Sayre joins host Maria MacMullin to fulfill Joe Petito's call to action—using his daughter's story as a learning tool to help others recognize the dangerous patterns of abuse before they turn deadly.

Kelly breaks down abusive behaviors through the lens of situational awareness, defining it as "using all your senses and intuition to notice when something is off in your environment, understanding what it means to your safety, and taking action." This framework provides listeners with practical tools to identify potentially dangerous relationships, whether in their own lives or those of loved ones.

The conversation examines specific red flags from Gabby's relationship: her tendency to take all blame during the Moab police encounter, Brian's tactics to isolate her from friends and family, his financial abuse that undermined her independence, and the controlling behaviors disguised as concern. Most importantly, Kelly emphasizes that severe domestic violence rarely begins with physical attacks—it starts with psychological manipulation that gradually escalates.

Perhaps most powerful is the discussion about intuition as a biological safety mechanism. "Intuition is not a prankster," Kelly explains. "It's simply trying to let you know something in your environment is off." Both experts encourage listeners to trust that gut feeling when something doesn't seem right in a relationship, as this instinct exists to preserve our safety.

Whether you're concerned about your own relationship or trying to support someone you love, this episode offers crucial insights into recognizing abuse patterns early. Trust your intuition, maintain your boundaries, and remember that knowledge is power when it comes to personal safety. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear it—it could save a life.

Speaker 1:

In a recent interview titled Gabby Petito's Parents Aren't Done Fighting. In New Netflix Doc published on Netflixcom, joe Petito offered this call to action. I'd like to see countries around the world use her story as a learning tool to get better resources and information out to everyone that needs help. Today we'll do just that with Kelly Sayre, expert in situational awareness training and founder of the Diamond Arrow Group. I'm Maria McMullin and this is Genesis, the podcast. Gabby Petito was abused and ultimately murdered by her fiance, brian Laundrie, in 2021. The recent Netflix documentary American Murder Gabby Petito details Laundrie's years-long pattern of abuse as documented in video, text messages, artwork, letters and more. To raise awareness about the signs of abusive patterns of behavior, my guest, kelly Sayre, will help us take a closer look at examples of abusive behavior through the lens of situational awareness, a method that helps individuals recognize and avoid potential threats before they escalate.

Speaker 1:

Kelly Sayre is a leader in empowering people with practical tools and strategies for living safely and confidently. As the founder of the Diamond Arrow Group, kelly is passionate about changing the self-defense conversation group. Kelly is passionate about changing the self-defense conversation, shifting the focus from primarily physical skills to situational awareness and prevention, to equip people to thrive unafraid and live life confidently. In her work, kelly partners with law enforcement corporations, nonprofits and youth organizations to deliver impactful training in personal safety, situational awareness and workplace violence prevention. Kelly is certified in FEMA's Community Emergency Response Team Program, the Department of Homeland Security's Active Shooter Preparedness Workshop and Texas A&M Extension Services Crisis Communications. She is also a member of the Association of Threat Assessment Professionals. This episode discusses intimate partner violence and femicide, or on their website at thehotlineorg, or by contacting Genesis Women's Shelter and Support in Dallas, texas, at 214-946-HELP 214-946-4357, or on the website at genesisshelterorg. Kelly. Welcome back to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me. It's good to see you.

Speaker 1:

It's good to see you and I'm so glad you're here, because we have a lot to talk about today and many of us who recently watched the Netflix documentary American Murder, gabby Petito. We have a lot of questions and thoughts about both the film and the case and, in particular, for this conversation. What did we miss? How could this have been prevented? And a whole lot more. But before we dive into the case and the details, would you remind us what is situational awareness, because that is not only the field that you are an expert in. It is the lens through which we're going to view and discuss the related details today.

Speaker 2:

So situational awareness is kind of a vague and typically a militaristic or tactical definition. So the one that I created is situational awareness, is using all of your senses and intuition to notice when something is off in your environment, then understanding what it means to you and your safety and then, lastly, taking action to preserve your safety. To preserve your safety, and you know, our discussion today I think is is going to match up perfectly, because there's a lot of things that when I watched the documentary it's like okay, well, that's off.

Speaker 2:

It's not necessarily this glaring warning sign, but it's it's something off.

Speaker 2:

And the way the documentary depicted it. Gabby noticed things were off too, and maybe her parents and her you know, her step parents noticed things were off but we didn't know how to. They didn't necessarily know how to what it meant to her safety and how to take action to keep her safe. Again, not victim blaming, not blaming the parents. But it's that real conversation of how often do we ignore our intuition signals and think, oh, I'm probably overreacting, I'm probably reading too much into it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely so. If you haven't seen the documentary, what we're describing is kind of the conversation that goes throughout the episodes of, in retrospect, gabby's parents, friends and others looking back on the situation, thinking maybe I should have taken a second look at what she said or what he said or what either of them did, because the public doesn't really enter the picture and understand what's going on until the traffic stop in Moab. That's when we first become aware as the general public that something was going on, something was wrong between Brian and Gabby. And so what you've done very expertly is to identify some examples of behavior by Brian Laundrie and that show his abusive pattern of behavior, and we're going to talk through these so we can identify abusive behaviors, how Gabby was impacted and what we can learn from each of these.

Speaker 1:

And all of this is in response to Joe Petito's call to action that Gabby's story be shared as a learning tool to help others with resources and information. So we have a lot of examples here that we want to try to get through, and what we are going to talk about is not necessarily following a timeline of the events as they happen, so it's not from beginning to end relationship. It kind of goes along following this story. So how about if you set the stage for us on the first example, kelly, of what you refer to as taking all the blame Right, and that's?

Speaker 2:

in relation to when the documentary opens. It opens with the body cam footage from the officers in Utah and what's really interesting about watching that video is we are actually getting to see her in real time, not necessarily thinking about oh I need to say this, I need to say that, just being completely honest, but reacting in a way or saying things in a way that sometimes we see most typical abuse victims are, is they're taking on all the blame. You know, the reason why the cops were called, why they pulled the van over, is because there was a report from a citizen of observing a male striking a female, hitting her.

Speaker 1:

You know physically striking a female and I can only imagine that it must have been pretty severe for a random stranger to call 911 and say I'm concerned.

Speaker 2:

And so that's that's what we have to keep in mind is that was the whole reason why they got pulled over in the first place and then when it cuts to the body cam footage, she's the one, Gabby's the one who's all emotional. Brian seems kind of cool and aloof and like no emotions, he's not.

Speaker 1:

he doesn't seem angry.

Speaker 2:

He doesn't seem upset and Gabby's very physically and visually upset and right away she's taking all the blame.

Speaker 2:

I was distracting him while he was driving you know he was upset at me this morning because I was cleaning the van and I'm OCD and like taking on all this blame. But you know, the officers asked her. We had a report of some of a male hitting a female and then all of a sudden and I don't quite understand why, but it shifts to. You know, brian's a victim and because of her behaviors he's the one who gets put up in a hotel. He's like how quickly that story shifted Because in my opinion Gabby was very vocal and putting all of the blame on her. So if you're an officer that maybe hasn't had that training on what reactive self-defense looks like for somebody in an abuse situation, you're gonna miss it you're gonna think oh yeah she's and I hate this this phrase, so I say this gritting my teeth is oh, she's crazy.

Speaker 1:

Which is exactly what Brian said to one of the officers, right.

Speaker 2:

Oh, she's just that way. She's just I'm fine. I'm fine, instead of saying wait a minute we would have the report of you hitting her. So we need to look at this through a different lens. And even then, anybody who says, oh, she's crazy, I'm always going to question.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and I mean not to pick this video footage apart too much because we have a lot to get, but you're right, the documentary opens with that scene. It's the first time the public is let in to see what's going on between Gabby and Brian, in to see what's going on between Gabby and Brian, and it did seem to me that the officers were not properly trained in responding to domestic abuse calls, you know, by way of their response and all the things that that followed by putting him into a hotel for victims of domestic abuse, which is just outrageous. But looking at this as through the lens of situational awareness, what are the specific warning flags that we pick up from that particular incident and how could a person who's in a situation like that, or observing it or responding to it, do better to protect either themselves or someone else?

Speaker 2:

Again, it's that somebody taking on all the responsibility for how the other person that blame shifting, taking it all on owning it. A healthy relationship involves two people saying, hey, this is the role I'm playing, this is the role you're like is taking responsibility for our own personal actions. But when someone's taking on all of that blame, then you have to start to wonder and look at and consider gaslighting. And this is why it's so important to have these conversations is because most I mean the worst of the worst DV situations domestic violence, domestic abuse.

Speaker 2:

Relationships don't start out with those physical blows. They start with those psychological attacks, that psychological abuse which is gaslighting, which is making another person think that it's all in their head that they're the ones that's the problem. So anytime someone is taking on all of the blame and their partner is letting them without saying you know to my partner honey, yes, I understand, but I also played a role in that, you know. So anytime there's that one, that's a huge red flag and situational awareness for me to be like that's off. That's not a normal, healthy behavior in a healthy relationship.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. So. Clearly, looking back on this situation prior to the incident in Moab, there was that pattern of abuse that family and friends kind of put together. After the fact, they saw that there was coercive control and a lot of the other things that we're going to talk about, one of them being making unilateral decisions. Tell us what that's about.

Speaker 2:

So that's in reference to when Gabby tells her mom and again this is coming from mom's perspective- in the movie, but Gabby tells her mom hey that we're moving to. Florida and Gabby's mom's like we didn't even know you were dating, like Gabby hadn't had the conversation, saying, hey, we're a couple, we're dating, which is a normal thing to talk about, and now all of a sudden you're saying you're moving.

Speaker 1:

And wait a minute, like slow down a little bit.

Speaker 2:

It's a big jump in commitment. And then the next day they were in Florida. So to me, why that matters is any abrupt life changes, especially those when it's isolating the individual from their, their support network, their family, their friends, and seemingly rushing the decision Like let's just do it, let's go tonight, let's go tomorrow, and this isn't like, hey, let's go camping for the weekend this is I'm moving many states away and that takes planning, you know.

Speaker 2:

so if a partner is trying to rush you into making something that big of a life decision, or if you see your, your friend, in a relationship and their partner is pushing them and rushing them to make such a big life decision, that again is cause for pause and to ask and to get curious do you really want to?

Speaker 2:

move to Florida. Like tell me more about this. I didn't even know you were dating. Why the sudden urgency to move to Florida? Tell me more about that. And then you know you can't control how an individual in a relationship like that is going to answer. If they're going to be truthful, they're honest, or? If they're going to pretend like everything's fine and this is great and we're just being spontaneous, but still, it's one of those where you're building mental notes. I say, okay, well, this is an off behavior.

Speaker 1:

And this isn't. I'm just making a note of it, Because again yes, there, there have been.

Speaker 2:

maybe in certain scenarios you've been talking to your partner behind the scenes about doing it and so people who, don't know, you are like wow, that seems sudden. It's kind of like being compared to overnight success People don't know the 10 years spent or 20 years spent getting to that point, but in a domestic abuse situation in a relationship, that's again so important to be like okay, this is one clue. And the more you start to see you're looking for that pattern. This falls in that pattern of controlling behaviors, of isolation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because in this particular example, in addition to making a unilateral decision, the unilateral decision resulted in the isolation Right and they moved to Florida. Then they start van life and go on the road and so Gabby's world is shrinking and shrinking and shrinking until it truly is only her and Brian out there in that van, and all we know of it is from the video. Yeah, is all the video posts and the Instagram posts and the photos that taken in retrospect tell a very different story, I think, than what her friends and family thought was happening.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's key Bria is in retrospect was happening and I think that's key Maria is in retrospect. And one thing that I try really hard in my work is to not do be fear mongering, like let's have a real conversation, because again, okay, the previous boyfriend to Brian talks about in the documentary that Gabby and him had talked about doing this van life. She had had a dream to do that.

Speaker 2:

So when I took that into consideration, the fact that Brian was like hey, let's do van life, okay. Well, that makes sense. I could reasonably comprehend that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, if living in Florida with his parents wasn't going well that, yeah, let's do this van life thing.

Speaker 2:

It's the perfect time. Let's go.

Speaker 1:

But again, when you have the mental notes, it's like wait, he's already isolated her once you know.

Speaker 2:

And then there's there's examples given in the documentary of how Gabby was treated by his mother while they were living there with things Brian did her her friend, that she uh Rose that her that was in florida, that she met, and the way brian treated rose and the way brian treated gabby anytime gabby wanted to hang out with rose. All of that now.

Speaker 1:

Now hey, let's do van lives, isn't some? Oh well, yeah, he's trying to support her dreams. All of a sudden, you're like no.

Speaker 2:

Look at this pattern of behavior. This is further isolation.

Speaker 1:

I appreciate you saying that you do not want to be fear mongering, because when we look back at this and we say, oh gosh, why didn't we all connect the dots, why didn't we do something, you know, to prevent this from happening, this is not all to say. We want you to be terrified and we want to be questioning every move that you know your friends make or that you make in order to protect yourself because you're just not safe. No, that's not what it is. It's to take a really honest look at who you are engaged in a relationship with, and are they treating you and meeting the expectations that you have for a healthy relationship? That's, that's truly what it is.

Speaker 1:

You mentioned the idea that there could have been planning going on in the background, and you know from what I took away from the story Abby was working 50 plus hours a week at a Taco Bell trying to raise money so that they could do van life, and on the one hand, brian said, yeah, let's do van life, but on the other hand, he berated her for her choice to work at Taco Bell and make money to support van life. So there's a lot of contradictions in this behavior, and that was not lost on Gabby, correct she? She understood that he didn't like her working at Taco Bell. She was doing what she felt was the right thing to do and so, on the one hand, was doing what she felt was the right thing to do and so, on the one hand, he's just being, you know, contradictive and she was right to question it at the time when she did because she did that. It was documented in text messages, it was documented in conversations, it was documented in writing, including letters that she wrote to him, right and in her journal.

Speaker 2:

You know, you bringing up the Taco Bell thing, that's financial abuse, and I don't know what the exact statistic is, but it's in the high 90% that domestic abuse situations, relationships also involve financial abuse, because it's got another way to control someone. If they don't have access to money, they don't have access to their own means to. Okay, this is not working for me, I'm going to move out. This is not working for me. Then they're stuck. Then the victim feels like, well, what am I going to do? This is my only source of survival From everything I was seeing is Brian never, ever, had any self-awareness of his behaviors. He was very entitled, he was very narcissistic in his behaviors.

Speaker 2:

He only cared about himself. He only cared about what he wanted. If you're in a relationship with someone, you deserve to be respected and heard, even in a disagreement. You can not have the same opinions with your partner, but it doesn't mean that you deserve the emotional abuse of making you feel bad about your thoughts or opinions. It doesn't mean the mental abuse, the gaslighting and the put downs, the condescending terms and words that Brian used and repeatedly kept showing up and from everything that we saw in that show is Gabby was starting to recognize that. She was starting to say this isn't okay with me.

Speaker 2:

The situation where she was supposed to meet with Rose and go out and she was running really late and Rose is texting her where are you? What's going on? Well, here, brian had taken out her ID without telling her so by the time Gabby realized it, she had to turn around, go back to his parents' house to get her ID and then go out. That, right there, is completely unacceptable, and if someone ever does that to you in a relationship, that is definitely your sign. This is not healthy and that's where we we talked about and that's why you know what's portrayed. As Brian said, hey, let's do this van life thing, because she was starting to connect the dots and know that this wasn't healthy, this is not what she wanted, and so he dangled that dream of hers in front of her Like yeah, I'll do the van life with you.

Speaker 1:

Let's go. Yeah, hearing you say it like that, it was very manipulative and it was premeditated. I think that abusive patterns escalate and they start out small and even Gabby had said, well, he does that to me, but he really does love me and I, he loves me so much I don't deserve his love. Yes, and it's that cycle of abuse where there is, uh, the incident, there is a cooling off, there is this love bombing, honeymoon it's. I'm sorry it's never going to happen again. You know, you're the most wonderful person to me. I can't live without you.

Speaker 2:

I'm so sorry, it'll never happen again.

Speaker 1:

I don't know about the apology part from Brian, but I do know I can't live without you, the crying because you're not here with me. I can't stand being away from you, huge flashing warning sign for a person who is attempting to control you through their emotions and their behaviors.

Speaker 2:

I'm thinking about this from anyone who may be listening. Who's?

Speaker 1:

wondering am I in an?

Speaker 2:

abusive relationship. It's really hard because you don't want to believe this person who says they love you, who you love, who you've spent time with, who you've had some good times with. It's hard to go. You can't.

Speaker 1:

It's kind of that whole. How can somebody do that to somebody else and you just don't want to?

Speaker 2:

believe that this person that you think you love, that you think loves you could, could possibly have ill intentions, and and so, for anyone who may be listening, who is wondering, the most important thing is to pay attention to behaviors, because words can be empty if it doesn't have actions to match and a person's actions. Our nonverbal communication is really hard to fake.

Speaker 1:

In that example. I mean he admitted to taking it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and he admitted that he didn't want her to go out with.

Speaker 1:

Rose, and Rose is a pivotal figure in this documentary because she does state in the show that she knew immediately that he had done something to her. She knew immediately that he was trying to isolate her. And I think it's easy to look back again, you know, and say, oh gosh, you know there was this and this and this and I didn't say anything. But at the same time, this is your friend, you're supporting your friend and she's in love with this person and they've made a decision together that they're going to build this life together. And hey, there's no blame here. We're not blaming the family. We're not blaming the family. We're not blaming the victim, we're not blaming Rose, we're not blaming.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no.

Speaker 1:

It's just that collectively coming together and reviewing several years before the murder was very telling for all of us.

Speaker 2:

Maria, I'd have to. I'd be curious to ask you if you've ever seen or observed unhealthy behaviors like that in any of your friends' relationships. And I ask that because I have a good friend and in one of her previous relationships there was some really unhealthy behaviors and very scary behaviors that were abusive. And she, because of the work I do, I don't know if she never wanted to talk about it, she didn't want to share. But you know, I found out through a third party and that was really hard because I was like do I confront her, do I say something? And I would ask other experts in the field, like I know this happened.

Speaker 2:

This has happened to my friend in her relationship. It scares me because the statistics say that this is definitely increases her chances of being seriously harmed or even killed in her relationship. And they all said you know, you need to just keep showing up, keep inviting her, stay in her life, support her, ask questions, don't be judgmental. But also there's this fine line of but don't set off alarm bells in her partner because then he'll start isolating her from you, which so I feel like as an outsider, as a bystander, someone who really cares about it is a fine line and it's really hard. There is no perfect answer, but I believe firmly that we need to keep talking about that because then it might help people recognize and understand Don't isolate yourself from them as much as possible. Stay in their life as much as possible.

Speaker 2:

You know I never have had the conversation with this friend, but they are no longer in a relationship, thank goodness.

Speaker 2:

He moved states away and she has still never talked about it. But now it's one of those things where I'm like it's tough to be a loved one of someone because you feel so helpless and again you see warning signs and you're like how do I say something. How do I say something? And really I think it's great. Rose did such a great job of staying in Gabby's life, even though Brian you know she talked about in the documentary the first time she met Brian and how her and Gabby were talking and hanging out and Brian sat off to the side like he was some parent watching, you know, at a kid's date and or watching kids play, and it was so strange to her right away she had an off feeling about Brian and so I guess I say all that simply to say, and emphasize, there is no clear cut answer, but I think and you could probably speak best to this is what have you heard from people who have gotten out of domestic abuse relationships and are survivors, and how they wish people would have said something, maybe early on.

Speaker 2:

Is there anything somebody could say early on, truly?

Speaker 1:

What do we say? So a lot of the things that you mentioned that experts told you to do for your friend are the correct response, and then, of course, there are a lot of other options to supporting someone who you suspect is in an abusive relationship, and I think that's why we're here today right To respond to Joe Petito's call to action to give people sound advice that they can use and actions that they can take if they suspect either they are in an abusive relationship or a loved one is in an abusive relationship. To add a little bit to what you offered, I want to say this I think we can receive those resources and we can receive that advice, as the bystander Acting on it takes confidence, it takes courage and it takes you need to know the person well enough how they will be open to receive these questions or open to this conversation. Receive these questions or open to this conversation All of those things are key. When you're talking to a potential victim of domestic violence and it's going to take some nuance you know that you have to handle it in ways that the person is able to able and ready to receive it and not become feel like they're being judged or feel like you're trying to interfere with their relationship.

Speaker 1:

I've heard, you know, my CEO say when it's a parent who talks to their child adult child, you know and sees potential abuse in the adult child's relationship with a spouse or a partner, that can actually drive a wedge between the parent and the child and make the child be closer to the actual partner, and it's what's called like star-crossed lovers um, everyone's against us and you know, even your parents don't like me and then then the abuser actually wins because the partner gets closer with the abuser, and so one does have to tread lightly. But I do think if you suspect severe violence or potential lethality, you need to talk to the victim and you need to refer for services. You need to give them resources on how to get in touch with someone, either the National Domestic Violence Hotline or your local domestic violence shelter. So before we go any further with the rest of the things that we wanted to talk about today, let's just recap a little bit.

Speaker 1:

So we covered several different areas that can be a warning sign that a person is in a domestic violence relationship and also some actions we can take against them. And just taking it from the top, we talked about taking all the blame, putting the blame on oneself as the person who is actually being abused, and yet you are taking it on and saying that I caused it, it's my fault, and so on. Unilateral decisions, especially unilateral decisions that lead to isolation from friends and family, and then control disguised as concern. We've also kind of touched on manipulation and emotional abuse by talking about you know, the text messages of Brian crying, saying he's crying all the time because she's working all the time and doing things to intentionally upset Gabby and then doing nice things to win her back.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think, kind of continuing to pull on the string of what. What can we do and really get into that point? You mentioned talking to your friend if you have concerns. I think to me it's the reminder that they're already in a controlling relationship and they don't I've heard this from survivors is don't they want? They don't want to feel like they're just getting into another controlling relationship or there's another person in their life controlling their life, and so part of it is staying curious with them, you know, asking them questions like well would you ever do that to someone, would you ever take someone's ID?

Speaker 2:

It's kind of helping root it back into reality and saying would you ever take someone's ID out just because you didn't want them to go out, without telling them, making them drive back and forth. You know, oftentimes we hear would you want that to happen to your daughter? What would you tell your daughter if that happened to them? And kind of helping them see through the fog. Because I think a lot of what happens well, I know a lot of what happens in emotional and mental abuse with the gaslighting you lose touch with your reality. Suddenly you don't know up from down and suddenly you do start thinking I am the issue, I am the crazy one. You know you feel okay, if I could just explain it better, if I could just keep the van cleaner, if I could just manage my OCD. She mentions Gabby mentions in the documentary why have I OCD? And it, you know it really upsets Brian. It's like do you?

Speaker 1:

really. You know, part of me right away was like did she really?

Speaker 2:

or was that just a way that Brian manipulated her and made her feel bad about herself? And so it's. It's getting curious and asking those people and trying to bring them back out, pulling them back from that fog of all the mental and emotional abuse. The psychological abuse Again. I feel that that psychological abuse, that coercive controlling behaviors, just doesn't get talked about enough. Nobody. It feels to me that many people don't realize how impactful that is before it even gets physical. The controlling behaviors are very damaging.

Speaker 1:

You know to your point when you talked about how do we approach this survivor without making her feel as if she's in yet another controlling relationship.

Speaker 1:

And we have those conversations at Genesis as well, because I don't work directly with clients I'm not a licensed mental health professional but those who do say that they position themselves so that they're not controlling her decision-making.

Speaker 1:

Throughout her experience at Genesis, with services at Genesis, it's designed to give her agency and power over the decisions and not judge her decisions. It's designed to like this conversation is, give her resources and information and education about the situation and allow her to digest it and decide how she will make a way forward and what's acceptable. And it's all about regaining agency over your life and being empowered. And, honestly, that is, I think, what you and I are trying to do here today by dissecting parts of the story of what happened to Gabby Petito and how Brian Laundrie's behaviors led to her murder. That's really why we're here. His criticism, his control, his manipulation, his obsession with having her all to himself escalated to the point where he saw that she was slipping away from him and if he could not have her then no one would, and that is a textbook pattern of abusive behavior.

Speaker 2:

And she, you know, obviously I've never met her, I don't know her, but watching the documentary I could empathize with what a wonderful, beautiful human. I mean. Her spirit was just seemed so loving and so light and caring and just radiated this energy that drew people to her.

Speaker 2:

And so, of course, someone like a Brian is going to gravitate towards that, because he's missing that in his own life, so he wants some of that gravitate towards that, because he's missing that in his own life, so he wants some of that, and what's frustrating is when those people get with those beautiful souls and they just drain them and so that's another behavior or thing to notice is somebody who was light and had dreams and was, you know, well liked and had all energy.

Speaker 2:

Now, all of a sudden it's changed and that's the change in behaviors, the change in that pattern where all of a sudden you're different, you're not the same. You know, if at the right before they left for van life, they, I believe, drove up to see but it talks about her mom, talks about hugging Gabby before they leave, and Gabby was just sobbing and she was like honey, you know what's wrong, gabby, what's going on? And Gabby couldn't explain it, she couldn't exactly say, but it's like she knew something was off, something was wrong, and that's so often what happens is because we haven't really, or that our individual has been able to pick out those behaviors.

Speaker 2:

Well gosh, that's really controlling. I don't like that. That made me feel like I was crazy, but I know what I experienced and they're trying to make me feel second guess myself, starting to gaslight me, and so it's adding all this up. That then hope. You know, the whole goal is the hopeless with work I do is that someone will notice and be able to articulate this and to recognize the behaviors. And so when we pull out and focus on just the behaviors, it helps us separate. Okay, this is my boyfriend of a year, this is my. You know, I've been with this person forever. It's like, no, these are the boyfriend of a year. This is my. You know, I've been with this person forever. It's like, no, these are the behaviors and these behaviors are not okay. These behaviors are not typical of a healthy relationship. So I can separate myself from that.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I've been with this person for a year and see these behaviors are not okay with me, from anyone at any point, and being able to articulate that and say that gives us power, gives us our power back, you know, from someone who's trying to take that away and say I'm not okay with that and being able to address it.

Speaker 1:

I agree with that.

Speaker 1:

But yet we do walk a fine line here, because if you are in an abusive relationship, before you decide that you're going to exit or you're going to speak up or make a change, you do need some safety planning.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, any expert will tell you that you don't have to leave the relationship to do safety planning.

Speaker 1:

Safety planning can be done at any time, and when I talk about safety planning from like a domestic violence agency perspective, it's the steps that you can take to prepare for your own safety, to prevent as much as you can prevent from happening to you by this abusive partner. And it can look like a lot of different things, because every single person's situation is different, and at Genesis, you know we create an individual safety plan for every single client, so yours may look like you need to make sure you have extra copies of your legal documents, that you are in some way preparing financially for your future to the best that you're able. For me, it may look like I have to have a go bag ready in the event that I absolutely have to go and I know where I'm going to go, how I'm going to get there. That's what safety planning is, and so safety planning is good for everyone, for lots of situations. It's not just for domestic violence. So, all of that being said, how does situational awareness training complement safety planning?

Speaker 2:

Great question and goes back to making those mental notes To your point. A safety plan is good for many people for many reasons. And just to talk about, you know, natural disaster, a tornado, let's say you know. So let's just pull back from this. The conversation focused on somebody in an abusive relationship, because if you don't think you're in a relationship, it's easy to say, oh, I don't need that information. But let's say a natural disaster happens.

Speaker 2:

A go bag is something that's great to have because it's got maybe your prescriptions in it, it's got maybe a roll of cash for what you first things that you need to do. Maybe it's got a cell phone pack, maybe it's got an extra change of clothes. You know bottles of water, you know water purifier, different things like that. You can Google and find lots of different options. And again, safety planning, they can help you with that. But if you don't even recognize that, hey you know. If the tornado sirens aren't even going off, you're not even going to know that. Or if you don't, you know, if you move to the area and you don't even recognize that it's a tornado alley, you might not even go and build the safety planning.

Speaker 2:

So, being situationally aware, learning to understand yourself and boundaries, because a lot of what that controlling behavior is is crossing your boundaries, whether that's mental, emotional or physical. And so if you haven't done the work to really say what am I comfortable with, what are my boundaries, and be aware of those boundaries, it's going to be harder to manage those boundaries. So, the more that you're learning about a situational awareness, which means you have to know yourself and have confidence in how you want to live your life and what's okay with you and what's not okay with you, so you can recognize early warning signs of threatening behavior to your boundaries, whether that's the mental and emotional boundary or physical boundary. Because again, as we discussed, the worst of the worst doesn't start out with physical blows. It starts out with control tactics, gaslighting, which is mental and emotional abuse, which is not respecting someone's mental and emotional boundaries or psychological safety.

Speaker 2:

So to me, understanding situational awareness is having that knowledge and being very self-aware of who you are, what you're okay with, what a healthy relationship looks like for you and how you're going to manage if someone's behavior is infringing on your boundaries, is making you uncomfortable, is making your intuition go off. But if you haven't done that work, then you might just get a weird feeling in your stomach, but not know how to articulate it, not know how to connect the dots. And so much of our power comes from knowledge. So how much knowledge can I give individuals, men and women?

Speaker 2:

that turns the verbiage so that they can articulate what's going on so they know where to go to for extra help and those who can help know how to help them.

Speaker 1:

I want to come back to that weird feeling in your stomach because I have a question about that. But the education that you're talking about and taking the time to actually reflect on your own expectations for your life is really important, and it's important to start early. So we need to start with our children to help them understand who they are as a person and how they want to live their lives, what their expectations are, and that's building blocks right. So it takes parents, it takes mentors, it takes the education system all of us working together to ensure that kids will have a healthy outlook about relationships and have high expectations of others, but high expectations of themselves and for themselves. And so I think it's wonderful to say that we should sit back and consider all of these things and receive all of this education and actively pursue it.

Speaker 1:

But I don't know that people always find the time or have the interest to practice it, and I also have concerns, and why I say we should really start early is I have concerns about young women being influenced by movies and media and social media. Of this. You know he's. He's coming in to sweep me off my feet and he's going to take me away and support me forever and he's wealthy and handsome and going to live this beautiful life, because that's a tale that we've heard many times.

Speaker 1:

And Disney princesses they sometimes they work out and sometimes they end up tragic, and so I think if we were to find a point of reference in Gabby's story, it could be that she was very deeply in love with Brian, and sometimes that and this is you know, this is so cliche, but love can be blind and you won't see what you're not looking for. Love can be blind and you won't see what you're not looking for, and so it takes a very strong support network of people who care about you that you check in with, and they check in with you to help you identify that. Hey, you said these were your expectations for yourself and for relationships, and what I'm seeing here doesn't match that. So let's talk about what's changed.

Speaker 2:

Right and I think that's great.

Speaker 1:

That's getting curious with them.

Speaker 2:

That's not accusing them of anything. That's not making them, shaming them. It's getting curious, right. Exactly, that's fantastic and to your point, we do need to have these conversations with our kids younger and younger. I go back to. I always think about modeling behavior. I have 13 year old and almost 12 year old boys, so as a mom, I am very conscious of what behaviors am I modeling for my boys as a female role in their life, and there are times where, even now, I'll mess up or I'll catch myself and I'll be like, whoa, wait a minute.

Speaker 2:

That's not the behavior I want to model for my boys, because I want them to recognize what a healthy relationship is and what it's not, and that I think parents get a lot of pressure to like you got to talk to your kids and then it's like what do I talk about?

Speaker 2:

Where should I start? What's age appropriate? And that's where a lot of my training, too, is. I'm not speaking specifically on domestic violence it really all comes back to. I'm trying to give individuals the confidence in their own personal safety skills. But that self-confidence also helps you be present in relationships, understand how to speak up for yourself. Have confidence in yourself to know that it's okay for you to have expectations. You know that you can be kind and you can be bold and you can go out and live a full life as you have these tools to recognize when a behavior is not okay and to deal with it right away versus as it progresses and to your point.

Speaker 2:

Monsters are real and they look like people. Domestic abusers don't always look like a scary monster. Sometimes they come off as very successful or very charismatic, very charming. No, charming is a verb, it's an action. So asking yourself, why are they trying so hard? That's where that love bombing comes in. Why are they trying so hard to convince me to change my mind, to change, you know, reset my boundary, to move my boundary. And that's where this is an ongoing conversation that's very nuanced.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and that questioning is key. And so is that funny feeling in your stomach, yes, and that funny feeling in your stomach is called your intuition, yeah, which is a topic you and I have talked about before. Let's just briefly review what our intuition is telling us, how we can recognize it, and so on.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think, to start off, it's always important to emphasize that our intuition is individual to each of us, but it's important in two key ways that it's it's always a reaction reactive to some stimulus in our environment. I always say intuition is not a prankster. It is not hiding behind the door waiting to jump out and see how loud you yell. Intuition is simply a reactionary mechanism and, because the other key point is it keeps us safe. It is a fundamental life preservation skill. So, if you keep those two key facts in mind at all times when it comes to your intuition, that it's not. It's not a prankster. It's not trying to trick me. It's simply trying to let me know that there's something in my environment that's off and its whole purpose is like.

Speaker 2:

I just want to make sure that off thing isn't something that's going to be life-threatening and that seems really grandiose.

Speaker 2:

But when you start thinking about your intuition in many different ways, it's it's really trying to just give you a really amazing life.

Speaker 2:

If you think about mazel's hierarchy of needs, right above food, water, shelter is our psychological and physical safety. So our intuition is trying to make sure that we have safety, that we are safe, because right above safety is all of the belonging, is all of relationships, is all of relationships, is being creative, is being productive, is is having this beautiful and full life. So, with your intuition, if you just learn to trust your intuition, if you learn how your intuition communicates with you and you understand that biological process of intuition, that's going to help you have a much richer, a much more mindful and present life, because you will start to lean on and have such a good trusting relationship with your intuition that you can be more calm, because you'll trust that if there's something you need to pay more attention to in your environment, your intuition is going to let you know. Most adults are routine, so something's off in our routine. That's when our intuition steps up and says this is different than what I normally expect to see here.

Speaker 1:

This is the anomaly of the baseline.

Speaker 2:

This is what you need to pay more attention to, whatever it may be, any of our senses picking up any sort of input a, a sight, a sound, a smell.

Speaker 1:

For sure it's a lot of things right. We're hardwired for survival and that system in us, that hardwired system, is the sense, it's one of our senses that allows us to pick up on anomalies. That our brain is saying that doesn't compute, that's right Something's off?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, something's off. And so to your point and to what you've said to me in the past you have to trust your gut when you know you know. It's as simple as that and I would encourage people to. I don't have any resources on kind of learning along with your intuition, but I would encourage people to look those up because I think I just might do that myself. But in the meantime they could always look at your website. What is your website? So people can learn more about situational awareness.

Speaker 2:

Sure, so my company is the Diamond Arrow Group and that's our website is the Diamond Arrow Group, and I have a lot of resources listed on there. I have a boundary workbook so you can start thinking about where are my boundaries, because, again, we talk about kids, kids get one set of boundaries because their frontal lobe development is.

Speaker 2:

you know, their emotional intelligence is not fully developed. So the caretakers, the guardians, the parents in their life, it's their responsibility to set up those boundaries to keep them safe. But what doesn't typically happen is that once they become adults, it's the new conversation of okay, you need to reevaluate your boundaries and figure out what's working for you, what's not working for you, and go from there. So I have a boundary workbook. You know, we put out lots of travel safety, because that too, our intuition might go off a lot more when we're traveling, because it's a new environment, so everything's off.

Speaker 1:

I use the example when I sleep in hotel rooms the first night is always really hard because my ears are always listening and that's like these are not the sounds of home.

Speaker 2:

So all of these sounds are different. Wait, we've got to pay attention to that. And then also, as well, my book Sharp Women, which talks about our intuition as women in everyday examples. So each chapter focuses on scenarios that women typically face. Where something's off but I don't know how to think about it or I'm not quite sure how to describe it, because no one's talked to us in a way that we can relate to that is hey, it's okay for you to not stop when the salesperson at the kiosk in the mall is like hey do you want a free sample?

Speaker 2:

Do you want a free sample? You can say no, thank you, and keep walking right, because so often women you know from society perspective are told well, don't be rude, be kind, be gentle, be the caretaker. And that's exactly what manipulators and predators are looking for.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you can say no. It's very easy Say no, I don't want it. And no means no and that's it. So, kelly, thank you for being here and talking about this very important topic with me today.

Speaker 2:

And I hope to see you again soon. Yes, Thank you so much for having on Maria. It's great to have this discussion and to continue bringing the message and bringing awareness to such an important topic.

Speaker 1:

Genesis Women's Shelter and Support exists to give women in abusive situations a way out. We are committed to our mission of providing safety, shelter and support for women and children who have experienced domestic violence and to raise awareness regarding its cause, prevalence and impact. Join us in creating a societal shift on how people think about domestic violence. You can learn more at GenesisShelterorg and when you follow us on social media on Facebook and Instagram at Genesis Women's Shelter, and on X at Genesis Shelter. The Genesis Helpline is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, by call or text at 214-946-HELP 214-946-4357.